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View Full Version : Our tax system - good read



Rick93coupe
02-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement

One day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. What happens to the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.

They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. :popcorn:

jaystang44
02-15-2008, 05:43 PM
right so if the tax reductions help the rich so much shouldn't they lower their prices on there products that is making them so wealthy isnt that the point(there so wealth the difference between the ninth and tenth man is $31)? lower prices and the middle/poor classes can afford to spend money again and get the economy rolling? more being bought/sold and more people have to work and that allows company to start hiring again ect. ect. ect.

But Im only 21 so I dont know anything anyway (atleast not yet) :bigthumb some day :rolleyes:

But that was a cool way to put it. But the richest still has to be fair and with a tax reduction lower their profit of value on each item they cannt just pocket that money and have their profit increase thats not the point, so if they dont get it what are we suppose to do, thats where the tax them more comes in I guess.

mach_u
02-15-2008, 09:06 PM
That's why I hope to see a fair tax/flat tax system sometime in our lifetime. If somebody works hard, has a good head for business and amasses a killer income, they shouldn't have to pay the lions share of the taxes while broke dick drinking PBR, living in a trailer and screwing his sister gets a fat return for mooching off the system.

ibstrokin
02-16-2008, 12:02 PM
right so if the tax reductions help the rich so much shouldn't they lower their prices on there products that is making them so wealthy isnt that the point(there so wealth the difference between the ninth and tenth man is $31)? lower prices and the middle/poor classes can afford to spend money again and get the economy rolling? more being bought/sold and more people have to work and that allows company to start hiring again ect. ect. ect.

But Im only 21 so I dont know anything anyway (atleast not yet) :bigthumb some day :rolleyes:

But that was a cool way to put it. But the richest still has to be fair and with a tax reduction lower their profit of value on each item they cannt just pocket that money and have their profit increase thats not the point, so if they dont get it what are we suppose to do, thats where the tax them more comes in I guess.

You do realize we live in a capitolist society, which is the reason this is the best country in the world, profits drive development, which furthers our society.

IWRBB
02-16-2008, 12:35 PM
If somebody works hard, has a good head for business and amasses a killer income, they shouldn't have to pay the lions share of the taxes

So who should pay the lion's share? Are you willing to pay an extra $1K a year in taxes so the guy with killer income can pay less and go buy his new yacht?

I have no problem with the richest paying the highest percentage of taxes. They make the most money, so they should pay the most taxes. Someone has to pay to keep those high dollar war planes in the air, and it's not the PBR drinker doing his sister.

All that said, I'd be down for a flat tax if it ever comes to be. I'd benefit from it a lot. It hurts poor people financially, but that doesn't really concern me too much. Their life sucks anyways, a little more suckage can't be that bad. LOL.

Rick93coupe
02-16-2008, 01:04 PM
I have no problem with the richest paying the highest percentage of taxes. They make the most money, so they should pay the most taxes.

I tried to respond to this several times, but really, its not worth it.

IWRBB
02-16-2008, 01:53 PM
I know it's tough to stomach, but it's the way the tax system is set up right now. Since I don't make millions a year, I don't have a problem with it. If I did make millions, I'm sure I'd try to get the flat tax passed ASAP. I do make enough to come out ahead with a flat tax, so it'd be great if it happened, but I'm not going to get worked up about rich guys getting taxed if I'm not one of them. I'm not a legislator, so I can't do anything about it but vote for those who might support eliminating the damn IRS.

TZ250
02-16-2008, 10:39 PM
There are two basic classes for taxes, working class and business owners. The business owners lobby Congress (and are part of Congress) to make the laws in there favor. The only way to take advantage of the write-offs is to switch to the other side, start a business.

Even though the laws are designed to help business owners, that's not all bad. If there was no incentive, there would be no businesses to hire the working class. There would be mass poverty (Africa). IBSTROKIN' is right, profits do drive development. (That's another reason that I'm opposed to a socialist health care system. When there are no profits, there are no incentives to give good health care. Where else would you go if you're not happy with your medical care? Nowhere. No one cares. Deal with it. If you need heart surgery in Canada, you'll probably die before you receive treatment.)

Rich people don't pay very much in taxes. Howard Hughes is reported to have NEVER paid taxes. The reason is, they tie up there money in businesses. They also take advantage of EVERY write off. They pay lots of money to tax attorneys to save them more money. It's worth paying $200,000 per year for a tax attorney that saves $4,000,000 per year in taxes. The bulk of the taxes paid in the country is from the working middle class. Rich people won't pay taxes, the poor can't pay taxes. That only leaves one class that CAN pay taxes, that MUST pay taxes, the working middle class.

For a flat tax, this is being proposed. I think that it's a great idea. http://www.mikehuckabee.com/

When you're thinking about taxes, laws and businesses, remember the golden rule: He that has the gold makes the rules!