F*CKIN CAMARO

[fastfreddie]

Anyone ever try to do a tune up on a late model Z28? My advice, pay someone to do it!!! My wife's '95 has the LT1 in it, and to change the cap and rotor, you have to take off the water pump. Fuckin' unbelievable! I worked on it from 11:30 until 5:30 and it's only halfway done. I can't even see the front spark plug on the passenger side. I would love to meet the dickwipe that designed this thing and kick him in the nuts over and over again. Has anyone done one of these and can offer some advice? I'm down to pulling the exhaust to get to the plugs on the passenger side unless there's an easier way......:mad:

[Buckeye]

I did my buddies. and after that I decided the are only two way to do that job with out inventing cuss words
A. Sell it, buy a stang
B. Pay someone dumb enough to do the job to do it.
Well maybe three options
C. Get full coverage and bomb the bitch

[12seclx]

I think you have to get most of them from the bottom...
I helped a friend change his back in the day. About 5 yrs. ago.

You could probably go to camaroz28.com, go into the Message
Board and do a search for changing plugs and find some helpful tricks...

I think all we did was change the plugs, we had a lift to do it on,
and it took 45 minutes - an hour. Tune ups aren't too cheap on
those things either...

Good Luck man!

Viva La 302! :lol:

[Buckeye]

ya the wires are cake it is the plugs that suck a big one

[2-8-1]

Anyone ever try to do a tune up on a late model Z28? My advice, pay someone to do it!!! My wife's '95 has the LT1 in it, and to change the cap and rotor, you have to take off the water pump. Fuckin' unbelievable! I worked on it from 11:30 until 5:30 and it's only halfway done. I can't even see the front spark plug on the passenger side. I would love to meet the dickwipe that designed this thing and kick him in the nuts over and over again. Has anyone done one of these and can offer some advice? I'm down to pulling the exhaust to get to the plugs on the passenger side unless there's an easier way......

Couple of friends of mine have done it so much, they can have it finished from the picking up of the first wrench to starting the car again in 6 hours. Good Luck.

[motox159]

i agree with the sell it buy a stang method!!!

[BigBadStang]

6 hours for a fucking plug change...
no wonder they stopped building those POS's.

[facemelter71]

6 hours for a fucking plug change...
no wonder they stopped building those POS's.

HAHA,ya no shit.They are hard to get to and i think you have to use a jack and be very limber with your arms.With alot of wobble extensions and some luck,and use air tools.It helps.

[pegasus]

chevys bulds it engine compartments so you have to take it to the dealer
to change the plugs in my grand am i hafe to unbolt the top motor mounts and roll it forward

[347sc]

From the bottom works for me.

[bestracing]

Anyone ever try to do a tune up on a late model Z28? My advice, pay someone to do it!!! My wife's '95 has the LT1 in it, and to change the cap and rotor, you have to take off the water pump. Fuckin' unbelievable! I worked on it from 11:30 until 5:30 and it's only halfway done. I can't even see the front spark plug on the passenger side. I would love to meet the dickwipe that designed this thing and kick him in the nuts over and over again. Has anyone done one of these and can offer some advice? I'm down to pulling the exhaust to get to the plugs on the passenger side unless there's an easier way......:mad:

While your there, make sure the water pump isn't leaking or you'll be doing this again to replace the opti-spark.

Here's a good forum to ask all your LT1 questions

www.nkyfba.com ;)

[Metcalf Racing]

The LS1 is the only way to go.....Way easier than a 5 liter

[fastfreddie]

Thanks for all your help guys. Here's where I'm at: The car is on a lift, I've managed to get the cap and rotor and the driver's side plugs and wires changed. I gave up last night when I realized that even with the starter out of the way I can't reach the front two plugs on the passenger side, and in fact can't even see the very front one! I am amazed that GM could even sell a car that was this bad to work on. I consider myself a fairly knowledgable mechanic, and I'm lost with this one. I can understand it being difficult, but Christ, this is fuckin' ridiculous. I'll jump on some of the F-body forums and see what I can find out.

Anybody want to buy a Camaro? :tard:

[DeckerEnt]

Just drop the motor out the bottom, change the plugs and re install. Sounds simple enough. LOL
Keith

[Xowner]

While your there, make sure the water pump isn't leaking or you'll be doing this again to replace the opti-spark.

Here's a good forum to ask all your LT1 questions

www.nkyfba.com ;)

yes please make sure the water pump is good or you will be doing it again!

good luck

[nskaats]

Where did you get your cap and rotor from? At least 70% of the time just changing the cap and rotor will not fix an ignition problem with an LT1, I always just change the distributor. I would only use GM pieces or the MSD Pro billet. Any of the other aftermarket pieces usually don't last more than 5-10k miles.

Doing the distributor (optispark) change itself is about a 2-3 hour job. It's not that bad if you know how to get around in there. The easiest way to do it is spend an extra 5 minutes to get the fans out of the way. It's really pretty straight forward.

As far as the spark plugs go I always do them from the top with the exception of 6 and 8. I find that those two are easiest to do from the bottom with the starter removed. Some people say they can do them from the top, but my hands don't fit so I take the extra couple seconds to drop the starter.

Just be patient man. The first time you change it sucks. Just pay attention and try to learn from it and it'll be easier if you try to do it again. You could sell it and buy a Mustang, but what fun is that? Even the new GTs STILL can't keep up with what GM was doing with the F-body 15 years ago. :D

[nskaats]

Couple of friends of mine have done it so much, they can have it finished from the picking up of the first wrench to starting the car again in 6 hours. Good Luck.

Distributor and plugs/wires shouldn't take more than 4 hours on an LT1. It is a little time consuming but they're fun cars.

[92BlackStang]

Where did you get your cap and rotor from? At least 70% of the time just changing the cap and rotor will not fix an ignition problem with an LT1, I always just change the distributor. I would only use GM pieces or the MSD Pro billet. Any of the other aftermarket pieces usually don't last more than 5-10k miles.

Doing the distributor (optispark) change itself is about a 2-3 hour job. It's not that bad if you know how to get around in there. The easiest way to do it is spend an extra 5 minutes to get the fans out of the way. It's really pretty straight forward.

As far as the spark plugs go I always do them from the top with the exception of 6 and 8. I find that those two are easiest to do from the bottom with the starter removed. Some people say they can do them from the top, but my hands don't fit so I take the extra couple seconds to drop the starter.

Just be patient man. The first time you change it sucks. Just pay attention and try to learn from it and it'll be easier if you try to do it again. You could sell it and buy a Mustang, but what fun is that? Even the new GTs STILL can't keep up with what GM was doing with the F-body 15 years ago. :D
Your wrong there new gt's run mid to low 13's, lt1 cars run high 13's low 14's

[nskaats]

Your wrong there new gt's run mid to low 13's, lt1 cars run high 13's low 14's

I'd like to see those low 13s in a box stock GT. I've seen a FEW 05-up GTs go mid-high 13s in box stock form, but not many. Even if then, Ford is just starting to catch up with what GM's powertrains were doing in the mid 90's. That can't be denied.

I love the look of the new Mustangs but the powertrain is the biggest reason I can't convince myself to buy one.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[NaomiDstangLvr]

I did my buddies. and after that I decided the are only two way to do that job with out inventing cuss words
A. Sell it, buy a stang
B. Pay someone dumb enough to do the job to do it.
Well maybe three options
C. Get full coverage and bomb the bitchI agree with Buckeye, sell it and buy a Mustang, lol! :D

[rogers]

take it a learning experince because someday some other poor guy will need help and you'll be able to coach them through it for a simple cost a few cold one's

[93hulk]

Put long tubes an it. Then you can change them all from the top. LOL. No I had an LT-1 T/A for years and it never got any easier except once I put headers on it. I did them all from underneath it was easier for me. And dont forget to use never sieze, you dont want to strip out a spark plug hole.

[Buckeye]

Hey hulk is that a boss hood on your car?

[1badF'N Z]

there easy!! I change plugs at least once a year rather it needs or not. take the alt. off to get the front plugs. and get a plug socket and grind the edges around it to make it super thin and take the rubber out of it, use a 3/4 ratchet wrench to get them out and back in. simple job but you will still cuss a little.

[93hulk]

Hey hulk is that a boss hood on your car?



Yeah it is.:)

[Buckeye]

Well that conferms I want that hood! Thought I did now I am sure

[2-8-1]

Distributor and plugs/wires shouldn't take more than 4 hours on an LT1. It is a little time consuming but they're fun cars.

They changed the entire OptiSpark nonsense with a MSD unit, and the MSD unit was bad form the factory. They did it like 5 times before they got everything working again. Apparently the rotor was rubbing the cap.

[1badF'N Z]

the MSD ones are junk and overpriced. there bad for blowing apart at high rpm also. you should have got a GM performance one. or on www.NKYFBA.com they say the one from Delphi off of ebay is good.

[nskaats]

The MSD cap and rotor package has been hit or miss with consumers. You're better off using a stock opti than ANY cap and rotor package out there because the cap and rotor isn't the problem with the distributor 9 times out of 10. So far the Pro Billet unit has proven itself with the few that have tried it (the ones that weren't killed by bad install or other ignition issues). The Pro Billet distributor can handle high RPM use much better than any of the competitors or even the GM unit. It got off to a slow start due to the heft $500 price tag but it's starting to gain a reputation.

[kermit]

I would put plugs in a lt1 car before a 3v 5.4 in a f-150 anyday

[fastfreddie]

OK, I FINALLY got the tuneup done today by unbolting the pass. side motor mount and jacking up the motor. After 7 more hours, breaking two new plugs and making three more trips to the parts store, I finally fired the POS up. Started right away. Backed the big green turd out of the garage and started down the street for a quick test run. First, the serpentine belt starts squeaking, then I hear a flapping noise. Turned the turd around and headed back to the garage, pulled in and looked under the car. Antifreeze dripping on the floor. I open the hood and see the first rib of the belt has started unraveling and must have cut a hose or something FUCK! FUCK! FUCK! If I thought I could get away with it, I'd drive the cocksucker off a cliff, on fire. I HATE THIS CAR!!!!!!!



shit.

:bangwall:

[Rick93coupe]

I heard the trick is to only change the plugs that you can reach. LOL.. Wish I was kidding.

[Waffles]

Forget the plugs, change the car. :P

[BigBadStang]

It sucks to here of your struggles man!

Sounds like GM engineering at it's finest. :rolleyes:

Lol @ hardcore...that was a good one! ;)

[nskaats]

Sounds like LT1 newbie frustrations, we all go through it. It really isn't that hard. Why did you have to raise the engine? :dunno: Changing the plugs takes a 30-40 minutes including the time it takes to drop the starter.

[Waffles]

Actually, Nick is telling the truth. I watched him do it (although his car has headers) in about 45 minutes.

[fastfreddie]

Maybe with headers, but not with the stock exhaust. I couldn't eve SEE the front plug on the passenger side, let alone reach it. I did the whole tune up too, plugs, wires, cap and rotor. I'd love to meet the numb fuck that designed a car that you have to take the waterpump off of to do a tune up. I've owned a lot of GM cars over the years, including a second and third gen Camaro and three Turbo Regals, and I've never been through anything like this. The Eagle Talon we had was easier to work on. It's my sincere opinion that whoever designed this car should be dragged behind a truck by a chain wrapped around his dick.

[nskaats]

The stock manifolds took me a little longer, but probably not an hour. You seriously gotta be patient. The easiest way for me to get to number 2 with the stock manifolds was from the bottom in the front of the engine. It's all in practice man, you'll get it down to a routine.

Last saturday it took me about 4 hours to get my engine down to a bare block, including removing the headers. It took me an extra half hour to put it back together saturday night. It's all in practice.

I do agree that the people responsible for the LT1 should be dragged by the pecker though. I'd like to strangle them for the location of the distributor more than anything. It's not hard to get to, just a STUPID place to put a distributor.

[cantonracer]

Off topic...my Z28 ran 14.08@99.1 when it was stock on a good day. I think around 300' DA.

My wife's 2006 GT ran 13.76@103.2 on a really crappy day...3000' DA.

Not even close performance wise.

The two best things that you can do for an LT1...long tube headers and a k-member.

Those two things right there make a world of difference to work on. Stock, they suck...even for guys that have had them for years.

I also swapped my opti a few weeks ago...took about an hour.

[nskaats]

Off topic...my Z28 ran 14.08@99.1 when it was stock on a good day. I think around 300' DA.

My wife's 2006 GT ran 13.76@103.2 on a really crappy day...3000' DA.

Not even close performance wise.


I still haven't personally seen a stocker GT break into the 13s. I'm still waiting for one I can see with my own eyes at the track. I've driven a couple stock LT1 6-speed cars into the 13.70s. Plenty run 13s. Even if the GTs do hit 13s stock it still took a decade for Ford to catch up.

Longtubes are definitely the best thing you can do for your LT1. They'll give it the ability to actually breathe up top AND you can turn wrenches a lot easier. Next best thing after the 'tubes is a good hands on tune (don't bother with the mail order crap or LT1 Dave).

[70mach]

He's right it did take Ford a while to catch up to GM.

[rsmurf04]

I'd like to see those low 13s in a box stock GT. I've seen a FEW 05-up GTs go mid-high 13s in box stock form, but not many. Even if then, Ford is just starting to catch up with what GM's powertrains were doing in the mid 90's. That can't be denied.

I love the look of the new Mustangs but the powertrain is the biggest reason I can't convince myself to buy one.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Are you really going to sit here and argue against Mustangs on this site WOW!

[nskaats]

Hahaha I'm not arguing against them. Just tellin ya there's a lot of internet talk about it but I still haven't seen it in person. That isn't arguing. I love the cars but hell the truth is the truth man.

[02mingryGT]

Hahaha I'm not arguing against them. Just tellin ya there's a lot of internet talk about it but I still haven't seen it in person. That isn't arguing. I love the cars but hell the truth is the truth man.

Your right with what you posted. There are a few that were high 13's but not many. Saying that I will add that is still faster than any Camaro/Firebird/Trans-Am built since the end of 02 to present. There's a reason they quit making them. Yeah they were fast but they're POS's. Not ragging you either just stating the obvious.

[BigBadStang]

Having almost 70 cubes more, the squeaky rattle traps should have been quicker. :rolleyes:

[graysonracin]

Having almost 70 cubes more, the squeaky rattle traps should have been quicker. :rolleyes:

Agreed! Although they were rarely quicker unless they were 5.7, even then I toasted many of them in a stock stang!

[Hot Rod]

The distributor was the biggest downfall of the LT1 ever. It was a great engine, but some engineer sold the idea of the opti. While it is a great system, the execution of it was terrible.

I've personally been through about 3-4 opti's on my 97. I finally gave the MSD unit a shot (not the shitty MSD cap and rotor, the actual redesigned distributor) and it works. It's built leaps and bounds better. BTW, Delphi owns AC Delco so you're not solving any issues there. The ebay one's, as I found out the hard way, are crap. It should only take a few hours to change by a garage monkey.

Metcalf is correct, put an LS1 in it...

As far as Fbody's running low 14's thats a load of bull. I ran 13.4 in my stock 94 and only went to the track to see what my 97 SS would run before I modded it and hit a 13.6 with a higher mph than my 94 Z. Both LT1 vehicles on street tires (no DRs). There have been people touching 12's off the showroom floor with LS1 vehicles. I have not personally seen it but I don't doubt it since they're trapping about 3mph more than LT1s.

[nskaats]

Your right with what you posted. There are a few that were high 13's but not many. Saying that I will add that is still faster than any Camaro/Firebird/Trans-Am built since the end of 02 to present. There's a reason they quit making them. Yeah they were fast but they're POS's. Not ragging you either just stating the obvious.

What exactly makes them POS's? I'm curious. Maybe I'm biased, but I currently own 4. The cars have always been dead reliable for me. My LT1 has been giving me fits lately, turned out it was a bad coil. No big deal. It's the only issue the car has given me in over 100k miles. You can't knock the car and call it a POS if ya don't know what you're talking about. Not trying to be a dick, but seriously the cars are great.

...and the reason they're not made anymore has nothing to do with quality. The blame for that falls back on GM's piss poor marketing, the exact same thing that killed Oldsmobile. The F-bodies hadn't been advertised in 4 years, I'm amazed they sold at all. Mustangs sell because Ford pushes them all over the place. GM is NOT good at pushing sales through advertising, they're morons.


Having almost 70 cubes more, the squeaky rattle traps should have been quicker. :rolleyes:

My "squeaky little rattle trap" of a 2001 Formula with an automatic went 12.76 @ 108.81 MPH STOCK on drag radials. I don't think that's so bad, I sure didn't have any stock stangs anywhere close to that. My lil' LT1 car went mid 13s on street tires at 105 MPH stock, what was a Mustang doing in 1994? Ford barely kept up even with the blower. Where's the squeaky rattle trap shit come from? Mine are all tight and quiet inside...save for a lil' exhaust noise.


Agreed! Although they were rarely quicker unless they were 5.7, even then I toasted many of them in a stock stang!

I'm assuming you're talking 3rd generation cars cause all they've had in the past 15 years is the 5.7. You're right, the third generation cars were slow as shit. The 305 is friggin useless, save for a boat anchor. The 5.7 TPIs were great for street rods cause they made a shit ton of torque, but that's about it. That's why my GTA got an LS1/T56 swap.

[BigBadStang]

My "squeaky little rattle trap" of a 2001 Formula with an automatic went 12.76 @ 108.81 MPH STOCK on drag radials. I don't think that's so bad, I sure didn't have any stock stangs anywhere close to that. My lil' LT1 car went mid 13s on street tires at 105 MPH stock, what was a Mustang doing in 1994? Ford barely kept up even with the blower. Where's the squeaky rattle trap shit come from? Mine are all tight and quiet inside...save for a lil' exhaust noise.



Glad to hear yours are nice and tight. But, the dozen I have either driven, or ridden in, regardless of mileage, ALL have squeaks or rattles of various types. Yes, I will say they ran good, I'll give them that. The last one I drove was a 2002 WS6 Pontiac with 12,000 miles on the clock. This car is all original and obviously low mileage, but it squeaked and rattled, moaned and groaned more than a 1990 Dodge Pickup.

I am basing my opinion on these cars from my experiences, and those experiences are the reason I will not buy one no matter how fast they are.
I realize anything mass produced, and mechanical will have issues, but my experiencing 12 out of 12 having squeaks/rattles is unacceptable to me.

[02mingryGT]

I am basing my opinion on these cars from my experiences, and those experiences are the reason I will not buy one no matter how fast they are.
I realize anything mass produced, and mechanical will have issues, but my experiencing 12 out of 12 having squeaks/rattles is unacceptable to me.


What exactly makes them POS's? I'm curious. Maybe I'm biased, but I currently own 4. The cars have always been dead reliable for me. My LT1 has been giving me fits lately, turned out it was a bad coil. No big deal. It's the only issue the car has given me in over 100k miles. You can't knock the car and call it a POS if ya don't know what you're talking about. Not trying to be a dick, but seriously the cars are great.

...and the reason they're not made anymore has nothing to do with quality. The blame for that falls back on GM's piss poor marketing, the exact same thing that killed Oldsmobile. The F-bodies hadn't been advertised in 4 years, I'm amazed they sold at all. Mustangs sell because Ford pushes them all over the place. GM is NOT good at pushing sales through advertising, they're morons.

Basically my answer to why I call them POS is right on with Big Bad Stang. I have never owned one but know plenty people who did and they ALL rattled and had various workmanship issues. But to say it had nothing to do with quality? Ha look Ford didn't start pushing the mustang until recently. They didn't have any commercials for it until the came out with the 05's. The only one I can remember with a Fox body was of the old man sitting on his porch in his rocking chair and the mustang blowing by and making his mailbox swing back and forth. But they didn't need the marketing, they had positive word of mouth where the camaros had negative word of mouth. But they were fast and still are. But I would never own one because it's a poorly made POS in my opinion. Basically the mustang appealed to chicks who only wanted a 6 cylinder so in a way your right, Ford's marketing guys are smarter. Anyway glad your car is great for you. I have nothing against american cars. I have some I wouldn't own but others I would. F-body's just happen to be one of the ones I wouldn't. I'd take an old 69 Camaro though.,... :lol: