Mosque on ground zero

[93RedNotch]

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/08/07/politics-play-proposed-ground-zero-mosque

I just heard about this and this is the biggest load of bull shit ever. I have been trying to find out more about this. Has anyone else heard anything more about this? But this really pisses me off. If they want to build a 'victory' memorial for 9/11, go do it in your own fucking country. I dont see this building, if it gets built, lasting long unvandalized.

[mustanger]

They have been approved to build, it looks like it's going to happen one way or another, remember this is America, we cater to other's before ourselves.:mad:

[Mista Bone]

Biggest load of bull shit is the thread title. The mosque will NOT be built ON ground Zero, but over two blocks away,

Then again is is Fox News, liars and unbalanced.

[93RedNotch]

Biggest load of bull shit is the thread title. The mosque will NOT be built ON ground Zero, but over two blocks away,

Then again is is Fox News, liars and unbalanced.

I know its not going on ground zero. The article didnt really explain it very well. I am trying to figure out what the deal with this is because I have read a couple diffrent things. You dont see Germany putting nazi memorials in/or around a concentration camp for the guards who may have died doing there job do you?

[redfirepearlgt]

Construction union worker representative stated today that though the politicians have approved this, they will be lucky to get it built. He stated that now they have the real people of New York City to deal with, such as the iron workers, IBEW, pipe fitters, local zoning, permits, etc. He further stated that it would be much, much easier if they would just agree to move the location 1 mile in any direction, and that he could see the project getting completed much easier and with little issue.

With regard to "on ground zero", when muslim nations allow christian religions to safely build and promote christian religions in the middle east, not one square inch of ground in this country should be approved for any muslim mosque. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[djom1cincy]

I agree Chad. Ny city is ne of the strongest unions on earth. I they have a picket then it won't get built.

[PaulFiveOh]

Ok. Wait a second people. Stop and think.

The Hi jackers were infact Muslim and infact they were doing something in the name of Islam. They were practicing militant Jihad. Jihad is almost a pillar of Islam but militant Jihad is a very different thing. It is pure terrorism. It has nothing to do with Islam in the eyes of 99.8% of Muslims.

Don't take my word for it, do your own research and find out for your self that this act was condemned by the majority of Muslims.

Why do the Muslim victims of 9/11 not get a religious shrine to mourn in?
Why are Athiest, Christian, or Hindu Americans better than Muslim Americans?

[SpoonyGT]

I know its not going on ground zero. The article didnt really explain it very well. I am trying to figure out what the deal with this is because I have read a couple diffrent things. You dont see Germany putting nazi memorials in/or around a concentration camp for the guards who may have died doing there job do you?

WAT

This is the worst analogy ever. As stated, jihad and militant Islam are not part of the Islam that most Muslims practice. Also, the build it in your own country statement is retarded as well since Islam is the most practiced religion in the world or at least one of the most. Last time I checked we had freedom of religion.

[redfirepearlgt]

Ok. Wait a second people. Stop and think.

The Hi jackers were infact Muslim and infact they were doing something in the name of Islam. They were practicing militant Jihad. Jihad is almost a pillar of Islam but militant Jihad is a very different thing. It is pure terrorism. It has nothing to do with Islam in the eyes of 99.8% of Muslims.

Yeah the pope is jewish, the sky is falling, and the earth is really flat.

If you have done this "research" footnote your sources.

If Jihad militants (muslim terrorists) are such a small part of the muslim world and so outcast as you would like us to believe, then why are we still looking for them in muslim countries? You would think that the muslim nation would turn them over to us and finish this so that we would leave their world and come back to ours. Yet they continue to harbor these terrorsts to the extreme of their abilities. I know if there is a member of the christian community that commits an illegal act he/she is not protected by christians but rather turned over to authorities and not safe havened. Christians did not support Hitler when he went on his crusade of genocide, yet he proclaimed to be doing his act in the name of christianity as he killed millions of jewish people. Did we as a christian nation protect him? NO!!!!! We took the terrist that he was down and rid the world of him as we should have done even sooner had we truly known the scope of his dastardly deeds during that time.

Last, terrorism is terrorism. I don't care if it is the IRA fighting in GB, Nazi's killing jew in WWII, N Koreans threatening nuclear war against other nations, Chinese committing genocide of christians and little baby girls, or rednecks driving car bombs into federal buildings. Line them all up and shoot them or hang them.

[93RedNotch]

Ok. Wait a second people. Stop and think.

The Hi jackers were infact Muslim and infact they were doing something in the name of Islam. They were practicing militant Jihad. Jihad is almost a pillar of Islam but militant Jihad is a very different thing. It is pure terrorism. It has nothing to do with Islam in the eyes of 99.8% of Muslims.

Don't take my word for it, do your own research and find out for your self that this act was condemned by the majority of Muslims.

Why do the Muslim victims of 9/11 not get a religious shrine to mourn in?
Why are Athiest, Christian, or Hindu Americans better than Muslim Americans?

Qur'an 72:15 - "But the Qasitun (disbelievers) are the firewood of hell."

Qur'an 88:1 - "Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring."

Qur'an 2:71 - "The semblance of the infidels is one who shouts to one who cannot hear. They are deaf, dumb, and blind. They make no sense."

Do majority of muslims follow the quran? If so, then what the hijackers did is just what 'infedels' had coming to them. And seriously, 99.8% of muslims condemned 9/11? There is no real stat for that but I sure its not that extreme. Hell, half the middle east had a party last september 11th to celebrate. The admendments only go so far as to freedom of speech and religion. Build a mosque somewhere else, that is the american way. Build a mosque near a place where 3,000 american civillians died because of MUSLIM extremist? Thats taking it too far. Even if it does get built, some jack ass will vandalize it. Then every muslim in america is going to play the "hate crime" card. And shit will never get resolved. Just dont build it in my opinion.

[Goldenpony]

If they do build it, maybe some partiot flying an F18 will level it. A couple of missiles, problem solved.

[mustanger]

Just the other day a medical group was just slaughtered in Afganistan, 10 people lost their lives because they were accused of preaching christianity, among the dead were Americans, Germans and a couple of translaters.
They don't want us there but we can have them here? What about the guy that was in the news yesterday who lived in the U.S for 15 years then went back to be in charge of a terrosist group just to help kill us.

Alot of things are assbackwards, if we raise our voices we're racist and if we don't say anything shit happens. Where will it stop?

[motox159]

2 blocks away or 10 blocks away...it doesn't belong there

[93RedNotch]

2 blocks away or 10 blocks away...it doesn't belong there

Exaclty.

[9cobra4]

I will lose all my faith in this government if something like this gets built. In the city where these idiots took thousands of lives no less.

[Mista Bone]

2 blocks away or 10 blocks away...it doesn't belong there


Exaclty.

ditto.

[Black92LX]

I will lose all my faith in this government if something like this gets built. In the city where these idiots took thousands of lives no less.

Hope you are ready to loose it quicker than you planned.

The Obama administration has appointed the Imam that came up with the idea of the Mosque to the State Department.

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/08/10/ground-zero-mosque-imam-to-represent-u-s/?test=latestnews

I find it funny that we are making religious appointments to the state department.
Aren't the liberals always screaming separation of Church and State?????

Ohh wait that is only when Christianity is involved.

[Mista Bone]

http://jewsribsinbearjaw.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/obama-turns-demon.gif

[mustang8998]

Just build a tittie bar on one side and a barbecued pork joint on the other, problem solved!

[PaulFiveOh]

Seriously, why don't you ignoramuses round up black people and lynch them.

Everyone of you who posted (maybe not 8998), even you bone, are ignorantly and in an undereducated manner arriving at your conclusions. You people don't know the first thing about Islam and it is clear by your posts. I am the most patriotic 21 year old you will ever find - and I know that the country that I am so proud of is founded on a fundamental right known as Religious Freedom. So in that spirit I will fight to the death for these Muslim folks to build a mosque.

For you folks who are educated enough to understand the relationship between Islamic refugee centers and community centers and their link to terrorism funding...there is no way I can make you believe me but let me assure you, assure you with every ounce of what makes me tick, that there are multiple agents, operatives and CI's that by default make their way deep into these organizations. So even if NYT can't figure out where the funding is coming from...I promise you...bet my scrap metal Mustang on it...that the FBI already has more than one operative or CI in the mix.

--

The short of it- You are NOT being a patriot by detesting this mosque. You are in fact rebuking and practicing the opposite of what our fine constitution decrees.

[9cobra4]

I'm unamerican because I don't want to support muslim beliefs in our country. Gotcha.

[Mista Bone]

Paul, I believe in their freedom of beliefs and religion, heck I even believe the KKK and white supremacists have a right to speak, just don't build their temple so close to that disaster. If the people building it had any compassion, they would understand and seek a location elsewhere.

I no way do I like the KKK and other extremest groups, as long as no one is getting hurt.

[9cobra4]

I understand respecting beliefs, but not building worships centers blocks away from where their extremists killed our countries innocent people. And to Bone, that's a little bit different, just because these people are muslims doesn't mean they're terrorists. That's like saying you don't like white people because of the kkk. That's not fair.

[PaulFiveOh]

It's black and white to me. I fully acknowledge the horrific and untold tragedy of the event, but it doesn't change the laws of our constitution nor the beliefs our county was founded on. It's that integrity that sets our nation apart.

[9cobra4]

Biscuits ftw.

[Mista Bone]

It's black and white to me. I fully acknowledge the horrific and untold tragedy of the event, but it doesn't change the laws of our constitution nor the beliefs our county was founded on. It's that integrity that sets our nation apart.

That integrity is at question of lately.

Then again we STOLE this land from the very people we now wanna block the borders with today. In reality they just want their ancestral land back which the USA has granted to our American Indians....that we invaded THEIR land and forced them onto reservations.

That is one pill that folks can't swallow today.

http://mexicochannel.net/maps/mexico_maps_us_terr_1830.jpg

[mustanger]

They had to know what firestorm they were creating, have they given any kind of explanation as to why build so close to ground zero ?

[pegasus]

yes our government should let anyone buld anything they want where they want it
however i have problem with any US companys that would buld this pile of steeming $*%T there in search of the dirty blood stained money that would pay for it

but this is just my opinion

I feel that there should be a chapel of some sort that evey day a prest or pastor of any religion that wants to be there can and they can rotate the days that they are there but the chapel its self should have no religious symbols just some seats maybe some stained glass

[Mavowar]

I too am a a strict constitutionalist (all Americans should be but sadly most are not anymore) that means my fundamental beliefs yield to their right to do so.....no matter how distasteful it may seem to my conscious.

It is every citizens right to worship whatever religion as long as they harm nobody in the process. If they have the funds and pass code etc.....They have the right to do so. End of story.

If we followed the constitution as our forefathers did this country would be in a much better state than it is.

We are a republic....say it with me again a republic. A republic is a form of democracy. The current political trend is that we are becoming a socialist country. If you read and understand the Marxist theory it leaves us one step removed from COMMUNISM.

The Definition according to Marxist theory
the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


Just remember the next time you recite the pledge of allegiance it says .....

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to theREPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Also look at that last line Justice for all. If you are a true American you have to be open minded so that all parties have equal justice. . Yes it is hard to do that as cultural differences can be a huge road block between parties trying to understand one another.

I have been married to the greatest Woman in the world for 8 years this Jan. Been together 10 years so far. SHOCKER she is South Korean. She was an illegal immigrant after her mother died she had no funding for school and lost her Visa. I stepped up and ponied out close to $7500.00 in lawyer and "justice" fees:eek::rolleyes::D
....and because of the 9/11 Tragedy there was no guarantee even though I married her that she could stay. It is the law. We go it straitened out ,but had they turned her away I would have went to South Korea and been a happy man indeed.;)

The statue of liberty says give me your hungry and poor(or close to that) While we cannot let the borders be a free for all. We certainly need immigration for this country to continue to grow. I may not like every sect of people that move here, but as long as they follow our laws, and the constitution I will respect them as a fellow citizen. Once they complete the procedures in place that is.

This country is a great nation and it is because of tolerance that you and I are here. Otherwise our lives could be very much different.

[Mavowar]

Technically we did not steal the Indians land. We won it through conquest. I know it is a rough thing but we could have just wiped them out. We did not it was our compassion that allowed them to survive. Albeit with less respect, honor and freedom according to their own cultural views. In essence we advanced their culture in a different direction as a result. Indians were warriors and peace makers. You have to ready to defend your land and in the event you fail. YOu pay the price. Sounds terrible but it is reality.....we do not live in a perfect world........but we have the closet thing to perfect here in the US.

[Goldenpony]

Technically we did not steal the Indians land. We won it through conquest. I know it is a rough thing but we could have just wiped them out. We did not it was our compassion that allowed them to survive. Albeit with less respect, honor and freedom according to their own cultural views. In essence we advanced their culture in a different direction as a result. Indians were warriors and peace makers. You have to ready to defend your land and in the event you fail. YOu pay the price. Sounds terrible but it is reality.....we do not live in a perfect world........but we have the closet thing to perfect here in the US.

Yea, we showed a lot of compassion when we gave them blankets tainted with small pox.

[facemelter71]

Your also supposed to take your hat off and put your hand over your heart to recite that Pledge.And also NOT mumble "one nation under God".

If you wont do that.Then there is a problem.

Also on a side note.Do you think you can shrink the size of the pic you posted.Its kinda rediculous.

[87stangbbb]

Yea, we showed a lot of compassion when we gave them blankets tainted with small pox.
hahaha

[pegasus]

Yea, we showed a lot of compassion when we gave them blankets tainted with small pox.

what doesnt kill you make you stronger golden horeses ...how:bigthumb

[pegasus]

my indian name is runs with beers

[Mista Bone]

Yea, we showed a lot of compassion when we gave them blankets tainted with small pox.

you mean like genocide, isn't that what Hitler was trying?

[PaulFiveOh]

I too am a a strict constitutionalist (all Americans should be but sadly most are not anymore) that means my fundamental beliefs yield to their right to do so.....no matter how distasteful it may seem to my conscious.

It is every citizens right to worship whatever religion as long as they harm nobody in the process. If they have the funds and pass code etc.....They have the right to do so. End of story.

If we followed the constitution as our forefathers did this country would be in a much better state than it is.



**Applause**

[PaulFiveOh]

yes our government should let anyone buld anything they want where they want it
however i have problem with any US companys that would buld this pile of steeming $*%T there in search of the dirty blood stained money that would pay for it


Your spelling says what the first line of my post was going to say.
Since you got that out of the way for me...

I will buy you a beer if you can clearly articulate how the money being used to build this community center is blood stained AND I'll buy you another beer if you can clearly explain why the hundreds of different companies that are going to build this structure are nefarious or otherwise acting in a way worthy of an expression of disdainment.


At the risk of pissing off alot of Bangerz...which I am going to do now....

There is a direct correlation between intelligence quotient/education and how worldly one is compared to their feelings on this subject. A simple person only understands that Muslim Arabs did this to us therefore we must not endorse any thing that is Muslim or Arab. I'll leave it at that.

[Mavowar]

Yea, we showed a lot of compassion when we gave them blankets tainted with small pox.



I never said it was perfect compassion. If you feel so strongly about the issue I suggest you donate your land and belongings to an Indian tribe. I would applaud your efforts for your honor and integrity but I'm not that sympathetic to them to do that myself. I got 5% Cherokee blood heritage. I get very strong dreams/visions and I have talked to quite a few Indians about them. They attribute it to my heritage. However, My Indian ancestors were wise enough to assimilate into the new structure of society that was brought here by the all mighty white man;) Enemies can make peace. Pride is a great thing until a point. While I myself would choose to fight and die till the bitter end if it was just my life at stake...... but if my family was in the cross fire and my enemy gave me a choice that they could live if I throw down my arms and surrender. I would be man enough to listen and weigh the situation out. Being a man is one of the hardest reputations to live up to .........It is never easy.....:( and I suspect it never shall be.....


and that just kind of goes with what I am saying. There were American terrorists back then to do such a deed. Does that mean you and I should pay for what they did to those Indians??? Sins of the father and all that....We were a young country still in the infancy stage. We have learned better since.....I hope;)

[Mavowar]

I was kind of thinking and the best way to put it is this way. We are all human beings with less than .00001 percent difference in genetics from one another and around or less than 1 percent genetic difference between us and Chimps. Did you know besides us, Chimps are the only other mammal that congregates into organized premeditated groups and attack other groups of their kind. True!!!!

We are linked to chimps as they are to us. Think of it this way I get a hot dog bun and lay a big steaming turd on it(hot n fresh:flipoff:) and add either 1 percent hot dog meat to represent chimps or .0001 percent to represent our fellow human beings of different race(which in the scientific community is a moot point there are no races....IE.... we are all homosapien ) you would call that a shit sandwich correct? and not a hot dog :lol:

Get the point I hope... our differences are cultural and can be solved in most cases with communication. In the event one party or another is stubborn Then OTSS !!!! ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE;) Welcome to the real world!!! It is what it is!!

[mustang8998]

Your spelling says what the first line of my post was going to say.
Since you got that out of the way for me...

I will buy you a beer if you can clearly articulate how the money being used to build this community center is blood stained AND I'll buy you another beer if you can clearly explain why the hundreds of different companies that are going to build this structure are nefarious or otherwise acting in a way worthy of an expression of disdainment.


At the risk of pissing off alot of Bangerz...which I am going to do now....

There is a direct correlation between intelligence quotient/education and how worldly one is compared to their feelings on this subject. A simple person only understands that Muslim Arabs did this to us therefore we must not endorse any thing that is Muslim or Arab. I'll leave it at that.

Are you trying to talk sense, here...............

How about topless pigs?

Pork titties, for everyone!

[PaulFiveOh]

Yes, pork titties indeed.

[Timido]

They build Mosques all over the place. One does not belond at ground zero.

[Black92LX]

It is every citizens right to worship whatever religion as long as they harm nobody in the process. If they have the funds and pass code etc.....They have the right to do so. End of story.


Just because you can does not mean you should.

[PaulFiveOh]

They build Mosques all over the place. One does not belond at ground zero.

You people just don't get it do you...it's all about you. It's all about what YOU feel and what YOU think. Not about our country's constitution or it's values but simply what you think holds vastly more weight than the values our county was founded on.

You idiots should renounce your citizenship.

[Black92LX]

You people just don't get it do you...it's all about you. It's all about what YOU feel and what YOU think. Not about our country's constitution or it's values but simply what you think holds vastly more weight than the values our county was founded on.

You idiots should renounce your citizenship.

You are missing the point. It's a thing called couth again just because one can do it does not mean they should.

Goes to the other end of the spectrum as well, the Church in Florida that is getting ready to have the Quran burning party in protest of the mosque.
By all means they are free to do what they want, but should they? No it does not speak highly for them. Same with the mosque sure they can build it but it is sure not going to help their message of compassion that they claim.

More of a continuing tradition of building a mosque at the location of a conquest.

I agree with you whole heartedly they have every right to build but again that does not mean it should be done.

And to top it off because people choose express their concern over the mosque does not make the ignorant or any other word you have chosen to call people because they are using their freedom of speech to express their feelings.

Time to grow up a little bit.

[Timido]

its called an opinion smart boy. Just because you say some crap on here doesn't mean it is the final word. I get on here and voice my opinion and you call me an idiot and tell me I should renounce my citizionship. You come on here and act like you are better than everyone else. What makes you the expert in where a mosque should be built?

[Bill]

The US Constitution grants us freedom of religion which most people know and agree with. I keep hearing this debated as a freedom of religion issue which it is not. My opinion is that this is a sensitivity issue and the Muslims seeking to build this mosque need to be a bit more sensitive to the situation. The construction of such mosque wouldn't be debated if it wasn't so close to Ground Zero. PICK ANOTHER PLACE!

I honestly believe, and call me racist/ignorant or whatever you want, that they plan to build that mosque at this site because it is a near site of conquest. They have done it before therefore it is nothing new.

Muslims have always built mosques on the sites of their conquests. The Prophet Muhammad himself made the Ka'aba, a pagan pantheon, into a mosque after he captured Mecca in 630 CE. The Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem was deliberately built near the Temple Mount, the holiest places in Judaism. The Ummayad mosque in Damascus was built on the site of the Church of Saint John. Babri mosque in Ayodhya, India was built by demolishing a Hindu temple at the site of Hinduism's Lord Rama's birthplace. They built mosques on the sites of thousands of temples throughout India.

Some of this post is fact while some is my opinion and the 1st Amendment grants me the right to state said opinion.

--Bill

[9cobra4]

You must have got hooked up on good shit, Paul. Your statements are totally one sided. Yes, we should respect their religion, but building a fucking worship center near ground zero? Fuck no, we should care about their beliefs, but not more than we do our own.

[04 Venom]

They own the land. They can build what they want. Many of you are condemning an entire religion because of small group of fanatics. If some radical right wing religious sect that advocates killing Jews, blacks and law enforcement officers bought the property, there would be no mention of it here. Hate mongering is the same regardless of the source. Muslims didn't bring down the Towers, extremists did.

[mustanger]

I would have more respect for them ( the ones who want to build so close to ground zero ), if they didn't build so close...if they didn't build it so close that would tell me they respect the way we are feeling...but obviously they don't respect our feelings.

That would be like the Japenese building a shrine right next to the U.S.S Arizona...this is another debate that could go on and on...just last week officials sent high ranking members to honor those who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki...so what do the Japanese say when we're there...you should apologize for what you did...WTF...a sneak attack at Pearl killing thousands doesn't warrant an apology from the Japanese...please...give me a break. WTF should we always apologize for other people stupid shit ? Same goes for the mosque...why should we have to step aside just so they can have their way? I know one saying that goes...if you don't like it here you can always go back to where you came from.

[PaulFiveOh]

Timido,

I shouldn't of called you an idiot.

There are two compounding factors here that I have a strong opinion on.
The first is that the September 11th attacks have only a small bit to do with Islam. The attackers were Islam. Islam was not the attacker. They used the idea of Jihad to base and motivate terror groups. This act was condemned by the large majority of Muslims. For instance, al-Qaida only has numbers of about 1,000 from bin Laden him self down to the grunts. It's estimated that less than two hundred remain in Afghanistan. It is these people who are responsible for not only the 9/11 Attacks but also the WTC bombing in 1993 (i think it was 93). There are over 1 billion Muslims in the world, they do not represent this act.

The other issue is something I see black and white on. It's the constitution, something every American should embrace dearly. And the writers of our constitution would have fought for the death for the right of these Muslims to build on Groundzero.



I would have more respect for them ( the ones who want to build so close to ground zero ), if they didn't build so close...if they didn't build it so close that would tell me they respect the way we are feeling...but obviously they don't respect our feelings.

That would be like the Japenese building a shrine right next to the U.S.S Arizona...


THEY are Americans! That's all that matters. The United States government is blind to faith.

[PaulFiveOh]

You are missing the point. It's a thing called couth? again just because one can do it does not mean they should.

Goes to the other end of the spectrum as well, the Church in Florida that is getting ready to have the Quran burning party in protest of the mosque.
By all means they are free to do what they want, but should they? No it does not speak highly for them. Same with the mosque sure they can build it but it is sure not going to help their message of compassion that they claim.

More of a continuing tradition of building a mosque at the location of a conquest.

I agree with you whole heartedly they have every right to build but again that does not mean it should be done.

And to top it off because people choose express their concern over the mosque does not make the ignorant or any other word you have chosen to call people because they are using their freedom of speech to express their feelings.

Time to grow up a little bit.

I feel like you are missing the point. It's the integrity of the execution of our constitution that makes us such a strong nation. If the government yielded to "how people felt" about the law than DUI would be legal and marijuana would have been legal decades ago....not the point but thats the idea.
Maybe Jim Crow laws would not be repealed in deep southern states.
The mosque they are building is actually a large community center that will act as a mission in the area it surrounds. It will offer mentoring, food, day care, all kinds of stuff.

And it absolutely does make someone ignorant if the ideas they are expressing are based on misinformation. Especially when they are ideas that go against the morals our county was founded on.

[Mista Bone]

Paul, one simple question I don't think has been asked, when was the property purchased?

Since it has not been said, one could believe that is was purchased BEFORE 9/11/01 since it has never been mentioned. Wouldn't that ruin the spin.

Yes, I did know the place to be built was gonna be a community center, not just a mosque.

Myself, out of respect I still don't think it should be built there.

[mustang8998]

:popcorn:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh283/mustang8998/tacgj.jpg

[04 Venom]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
What a perfectly idiotic statement. The only difference between Timothy McVeigh and the 9/11 terrorists is that he couldn't fly a plane. By your twisted logic, any former Persian Gulf veteran is a potential terrorist.

[redfirepearlgt]

They own the land. They can build what they want. Many of you are condemning an entire religion because of small group of fanatics. If some radical right wing religious sect that advocates killing Jews, blacks and law enforcement officers bought the property, there would be no mention of it here. Hate mongering is the same regardless of the source. Muslims didn't bring down the Towers, extremists did.

Please footnote reference your data backing "small group". As with Paul I doubt you will provide this thread with a document (not propaganda) supporting this claim. And plaese do not reference The Huffington Post.

Once again I challenge self proclaimed inetellect extraordinaire Paul to kindly back his 99.8% number on Muslims who don't support terrorist activity. If this were true IMO and based on somthing called common sense, they would not be harboring these fugitives that are infesting their peace loving religious heritage. Rather they would have turned these "radicals" over to authorities and/or had them publicly stoned, or hanged for their ill acts of terrorism which Paul and a few other high intellects claim Muslims do not represent.

BTW I learned a new term today coincidentally that made me think of Paul's candid but self absorbed higher intellect comment earlier in this thread. Alazoneia. Paul, being a self proclaimed scholar you should be able to share with my fellow common "simple" thinkers (as you perceive us) what these greek terms tanslate to. Should be no need for a google search on your part either as well educated and worldly as you are.

I know that in the eyes of people like Paul who are so highly educated and worldly, common sense has no place in their minds. However I will make this charge once again in the name of common sense.

If Muslims are so peace loving as Paul and others claim they are (99.8%), why are Muslims and the Muslim World still harboring these terrorists, and terrorist camps/cells in their countries? Why are they continuing to protect leaders of this extremist movement from U.S. forces that could otherwise retreat and come home if only the Muslim nation would crush and put to an end the terrorist activity within its empire?

Me done now. I want to talk about mustangs and car shows. BYE! LOL!

[PaulFiveOh]

Please footnote reference your data backing "small group". As with Paul I doubt you will provide this thread with a document (not propaganda) supporting this claim. And plaese do not reference The Huffington Post.

Once again I challenge self proclaimed inetellect extraordinaire Paul to kindly back his 99.8% number on Muslims who don't support terrorist activity. If this were true IMO and based on somthing called common sense, they would not be harboring these fugitives that are infesting their peace loving religious heritage. Rather they would have turned these "radicals" over to authorities and/or had them publicly stoned, or hanged for their ill acts of terrorism which Paul and a few other high intellects claim Muslims do not represent.

BTW I learned a new term today coincidentally that made me think of Paul's candid but self absorbed higher intellect comment earlier in this thread. Alazoneia. Paul, being a self proclaimed scholar you should be able to share with my fellow common "simple" thinkers (as you perceive us) what these greek terms tanslate to. Should be no need for a google search on your part either as well educated and worldly as you are.

I know that in the eyes of people like Paul who are so highly educated and worldly, common sense has no place in their minds. However I will make this charge once again in the name of common sense.

If Muslims are so peace loving as Paul and others claim they are (99.8%), why are Muslims and the Muslim World still harboring these terrorists, and terrorist camps/cells in their countries? Why are they continuing to protect leaders of this extremist movement from U.S. forces that could otherwise retreat and come home if only the Muslim nation would crush and put to an end the terrorist activity within its empire?

Me done now. I want to talk about mustangs and car shows. BYE! LOL!

I'm not going to respond to this. My numbers are glaringly accurate.

You are simply wrong and spewing bullshit if you are trying to claim that more than a fraction of Muslims support violent Jihad.

You can be threatened by my style of authoring all you want. By attempting to shine me a bad light because I "talk better than yous" proves that you know nothing about the topic at hand and would rather smear the presenter rather than the presentation.

Edit- I see you are a veteran Chad. My numbers come from the same places that your superiors in the navy would have looked to for this intel. Thanks for your service!

[04 Venom]

If Muslims are so peace loving as Paul and others claim they are (99.8%), why are Muslims and the Muslim World still harboring these terrorists, and terrorist camps/cells in their countries? Why are they continuing to protect leaders of this extremist movement from U.S. forces that could otherwise retreat and come home if only the Muslim nation would crush and put to an end the terrorist activity within its empire?

Me done now. I want to talk about mustangs and car shows. BYE! LOL!

If you knew anything about politics in the Mid-East and Indian sub-continent, and apparently you do not, you would realize that the terrorists choose countries with weak and corrupt governments who can't take any action against them because the citizens dislike the government as much or more than the terrorists. Think of some of the countries with significant terrorist activity: Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. See any similarities? Somalia has had no central government for decades. Vast swaths of territories in these countries are not controlled by the central government. Afghanistan would have no government central at all, but for the US troops there. Pakistan's military is much more concerned with India than terrorists hiding out in Waziristan--which they never had much control over in the first place.

Most of the indigenous population could give a rats ass about the war on terrorism--it isn't on their radar probably because they are more interested in food and shelter and they probably would not care where it came from. They view their governments as weak, corrupt and not acting in their interests.

Stick to Mustangs and car shows.

[mustang8998]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
What a perfectly idiotic statement. The only difference between Timothy McVeigh and the 9/11 terrorists is that he couldn't fly a plane. By your twisted logic, any former Persian Gulf veteran is a potential terrorist.

?????

[redfirepearlgt]

I'm not going to respond to this. My numbers are glaringly accurate.

You are simply wrong and spewing bullshit if you are trying to claim that more than a fraction of Muslims support violent Jihad.

You can be threatened by my style of authoring all you want. By attempting to shine me a bad light because I "talk better than yous" proves that you know nothing about the topic at hand and would rather smear the presenter rather than the presentation.

Edit- I see you are a veteran Chad. My numbers come from the same places that your superiors in the navy would have looked to for this intel. Thanks for your service!

Just what I thought. You have nothing to back your statistic, so the next move in your grab bag is to accuse me a smearing you. Politics 101. Your reference is weak at best. Put some teeth in it. Give me book, chapter, page, paragraph, and line number. You want to present argument like a lawyer then do so. Don't throw vague remarks to the wind and expect them to stick. That reference wouldn't sway a willow branch, let alone a judge if he were presiding over your attempt to win an argument. I expected more. :lol:

[redfirepearlgt]

If you knew anything about politics in the Mid-East and Indian sub-continent, and apparently you do not, you would realize that the terrorists choose countries with weak and corrupt governments who can't take any action against them because the citizens dislike the government as much or more than the terrorists. Think of some of the countries with significant terrorist activity: Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. See any similarities? Somalia has had no central government for decades. Vast swaths of territories in these countries are not controlled by the central government. Afghanistan would have no government central at all, but for the US troops there. Pakistan's military is much more concerned with India than terrorists hiding out in Waziristan--which they never had much control over in the first place.

Most of the indigenous population could give a rats ass about the war on terrorism--it isn't on their radar probably because they are more interested in food and shelter and they probably would not care where it came from. They view their governments as weak, corrupt and not acting in their interests.

Stick to Mustangs and car shows.

Well thank you for a little information I can sink my teeth into. At least you are giving the argument some interest and a little bit of fact. I would like for you to post your sources though so I can follow up and verify them if I am to further educate myself on the subject and not just take a forum thread opinion or response as fact. Some of what you say makes sense. I would agree with you to some degree. You give me something to think about, however, it still will not pursuade me to want a mosque built anywhere in that area of ground zero, which is what this discussion thread is about.

Have a nice week and thanks for the information. There is a little bit of sense to it. A very thought out response on your part. I am somewhat impressed.

As far as "sticking to mustangs and carshows", I'll post my .02 in anywhere I wish. This is an open website and opinion is opinion. Don't like it to bad. Take your discussion private. Freedom is such a good thing. Happy Days!

[Black92LX]

I feel like you are missing the point. It's the integrity of the execution of our constitution that makes us such a strong nation. If the government yielded to "how people felt" about the law than DUI would be legal and marijuana would have been legal decades ago....not the point but thats the idea.
Maybe Jim Crow laws would not be repealed in deep southern states.
The mosque they are building is actually a large community center that will act as a mission in the area it surrounds. It will offer mentoring, food, day care, all kinds of stuff.

And it absolutely does make someone ignorant if the ideas they are expressing are based on misinformation. Especially when they are ideas that go against the morals our county was founded on.

For whatever reason you are failing to read my posts. You keep talking about Constitutionality and the government. I agree they have every right to build the mosque wherever they want I also don't think the government should step.

It's a matter of couth and dignity towards one's fellow man. I have no problem with them building a mosque/community center I just feel given the scenario and the fact that the Imam behind the idea has yet to condemn the acts of 9/11 and even go to the extent of blaming the US government for the attack.

If they are there to spread compassion and understanding of the Muslim faith this is a poor way to go about it.

[PaulFiveOh]

Just what I thought. You have nothing to back your statistic, so the next move in your grab bag is to accuse me a smearing you. Politics 101. Your reference is weak at best. Put some teeth in it. Give me book, chapter, page, paragraph, and line number. You want to present argument like a lawyer then do so. Don't throw vague remarks to the wind and expect them to stick. That reference wouldn't sway a willow branch, let alone a judge if he were presiding over your attempt to win an argument. I expected more. :lol:

Nothing to back my statistics? If you even had any idea...

Redfirepearalgt, you are simply wrong. You have not the slightest idea of anything to do with the topics we are talking about. Your knowledge of the Middle East is embarrassing you. If you did, you wouldn't be attempting to discredit what I am saying by using the idea that I am not quoting sources.

You even fail to realize that the statements you are making require a vastly larger burden of proof than the statements I am making. You make generalities stating that a large number of Muslims supported the 9/11 attacks. I take my knowledge of the culture and the religion and attempt to educate you about how peaceful Islam is.

I will end my engagement with you by saying that I do some work for some agencies that are in the heat of these issues. You take the way you feel about this and you make posts, with no concrete data or absolutes. I make these posts using the information I have gained in my job to protect our country from actual terrorists.

[PaulFiveOh]

Well thank you for a little information I can sink my teeth into. At least you are giving the argument some interest and a little bit of fact. I would like for you to post your sources though so I can follow up and verify them if I am to further educate myself on the subject and not just take a forum thread opinion or response as fact. Some of what you say makes sense. I would agree with you to some degree. You give me something to think about, however, it still will not pursuade me to want a mosque built anywhere in that area of ground zero, which is what this discussion thread is about.

Have a nice week and thanks for the information. There is a little bit of sense to it. A very thought out response on your part. I am somewhat impressed.

As far as "sticking to mustangs and carshows", I'll post my .02 in anywhere I wish. This is an open website and opinion is opinion. Don't like it to bad. Take your discussion private. Freedom is such a good thing. Happy Days!

If you want to educate your self allow me to buy you and send you a book called "The Cell". If you promise to read it, I will do this.
http://www.amazon.com/Cell-Inside-Plot-Failed-Stop/dp/0786887826

But in all seriousness, you have added absolutely nothing to this thread and I feel like I want to say: "let the adults talk about it"

[PaulFiveOh]

For whatever reason you are failing to read my posts. You keep talking about Constitutionality and the government. I agree they have every right to build the mosque wherever they want I also don't think the government should step.

It's a matter of couth and dignity towards one's fellow man. I have no problem with them building a mosque/community center I just feel given the scenario and the fact that the Imam behind the idea has yet to condemn the acts of 9/11 and even go to the extent of blaming the US government for the attack.

If they are there to spread compassion and understanding of the Muslim faith this is a poor way to go about it.

Black,

You know as well as I do that I won't acknowledge "fake" things such as feelings and emotions. It's the law, simple as that.

[Black92LX]

Black,

You know as well as I do that I won't acknowledge "fake" things such as feelings and emotions. It's the law, simple as that.

If you think feelings and emotions are "fake" and base life decisions on nothing more then it being unlawful I truly feel sorry for you living such a robotic life.

Life is far more than "law"

[PaulFiveOh]

I simply think emotions and feelings have a place in personal life. Upholding the law is not personal.

[may93]

You people just don't get it do you...it's all about you. It's all about what YOU feel and what YOU think. Not about our country's constitution or it's values but simply what you think holds vastly more weight than the values our county was founded on.

You idiots should renounce your citizenship.

Freedom of religion might provide the right to build the mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero, but common sense and respect for those who lost their lives and loved ones gives sensible reason to build the mosque someplace else.

PaulFiveOh you've been quick to defend the Muslim Faith but where in your post have you ackowledged the pain and suffering of those who died and those families who still suffer after 911? Yes they have the right to build it where they chose but why spit in the face of other Americans to do so?

Your "You idiots should renounce your citizenship" comments is what is expected of someone with an opinion based off of no actual life experiences to back it up. If they disagree with you then they shouldnt be Americans?

I do however agree with you regarding they have the Constitutional right! I just dont understand why you cant see it's disrespectful.

[PaulFiveOh]

That (my) comment was off color. I have more "life experience" than any 22 year old should have. However that off color comment is based on a very sound idea of "If you don't like what the constitution says and/or if you are not willing to blindly uphold the constitution than leave. GTFO of America if you can not follow it's laws."

I acknowledged the tremendous suffering endured by the families of victims as you read on page 3.

This is a circular argument guys. You support the feelings of the victims of the 9/11 attacks. So do I. I simply support our constitution more.

[PaulFiveOh]

May93, regarding your statement: "Why can't you see it's disrespectful..."
This is actually the core of what I am trying to get everyone reading this to understand!
The Muslim faith did not attack America damn it!!!! HUNDREDS of Muslims were killed in the attacks!
The terrorists used Islam as a front (or better yet, as a means) to execute their objectives!

I don't know how else to tell everyone. It wasn't Islam. It was Al Qaeda. It was bin Laden. It was Sudan, Afghanistan, Yemen, and in my personal opinion, Iran as well. Theses are states! Not religions!!

[redfirepearlgt]

Well Paul feel this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlVcJ8s2PfU

A woman killed in Afghanistan by the Taliban for 'spreading christianity' while providing medical assistance. Now that is some criminal offense. Keep in mind now that this was done because a muslim law was violated. Teaching anything other than their belief is punishable by death. Granted, if this woman really committed this offense while being there she knew the potential risk she was taking. Do you honestly want to stand by and support this type of society and allow it to migrate to this country? Should Christians create a similar law in this country? No! There is a pattern here of what barbaric means of laws muslim countries live by, such as death for a woman who commits adultry.

Please spend your money on something more useful like an Ann Coulter novel. LOL! It might wise you up. Maybe you can read her stuff and understand those big Harvard words she uses, I tried and gave up. I would hope you find something that will teach morals and help you to realize that the law is one thing but morals and ethics are yet another. I feel for you. You appear to have some intellignece but it ends there. More tot life than brains.

Maybe you should find a political website to pick your fights on instead of an automotive website. That would seem to make more sense unless you would find yourself overly challenged on one of those. You appear to be harboring some major chip on your shoulder that has you out looking to prove something. Just beacause one does not reason with you does not make them less intelligent or immature or wrong for that matter. Good night.

[PaulFiveOh]

Well Paul feel this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlVcJ8s2PfU

A woman killed in Afghanistan by the Taliban for 'spreading christianity' while providing medical assistance. Now that is some criminal offense. Keep in mind now that this was done because a muslim law was violated. Teaching anything other than their belief is punishable by death. Granted, if this woman really committed this offense while being there she knew the potential risk she was taking. Do you honestly want to stand by and support this type of society and allow it to migrate to this country? Should Christians create a similar law in this country? No! There is a pattern here of what barbaric means of laws muslim countries live by, such as death for a woman who commits adultry.

Please spend your money on something more useful like an Ann Coulter novel. LOL! It might wise you up. Maybe you can read her stuff and understand those big Harvard words she uses, I tried and gave up. I would hope you find something that will teach morals and help you to realize that the law is one thing but morals and ethics are yet another. I feel for you. You appear to have some intellignece but it ends there. More tot life than brains.

Maybe you should find a political website to pick your fights on instead of an automotive website. That would seem to make more sense unless you would find yourself overly challenged on one of those. You appear to be harboring some major chip on your shoulder that has you out looking to prove something. Just beacause one does not reason with you does not make them less intelligent or immature or wrong for that matter. Good night.

Before you go to bed, realize that your entire post is invalidated by the fact that you are comparing an Islamic Republic to a religion. Maybe you should in fact read the material I suggested so that you know the difference.

And in reply to finding a political website...I simply replied to a post. In addition, what I am presenting here is not new or radical, it's the view of almost all parties and any educated person in the political or federal law enforcement scene. Hell, even Obama staunchly approves of the idea.

I have no chip on my shoulder, I simply do all that I can to protect the basic rights of humans in our country and abroad. And again, to retort to your last point - it speaks volumes about ones self when they arrive at conclusions that are filled with bias, racist, and discriminating opinions based on faulty data. Especially when those opinions go directly against our constitution.

[redfirepearlgt]

Before you go to bed, realize that your entire post is invalidated by the fact that you are comparing an Islamic Republic to a religion. Maybe you should in fact read the material I suggested so that you know the difference.

And in reply to finding a political website...I simply replied to a post. In addition, what I am presenting here is not new or radical, it's the view of almost all parties and any educated person in the political or federal law enforcement scene. Hell, even Obama staunchly approves of the idea.

I have no chip on my shoulder, I simply do all that I can to protect the basic rights of humans in our country and abroad. And again, to retort to your last point - it speaks volumes about ones self when they arrive at conclusions that are filled with bias, racist, and discriminating opinions based on faulty data. Especially when those opinions go directly against our constitution.

Oh phase two of politics 101 - the race card. Who metnioned race? What a loon.

[Black92LX]

I simply think emotions and feelings have a place in personal life. Upholding the law is not personal.

Why do you keep bringing up the law issue? No one here is questioning the fact they have every legal right to build there.

Again, just because you can does not mean you should.

[mustanger]

Plain and simple...it just isn't the right thing to do ...for alot of people it would mean common courtesy...would you do it because you thought you could get away with it or make some sort of political statement? I bet alot of them are laughing right about now. Of course this is just my opinion. If it was built 10 blocks down the street I bet we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[draggin50]

Blah, Blah, Blah.... Im just getting sick of hearing about this crap! I cant even turn on the local news without hearing about this crap. So instead I get on here only to see everyone bitching about it. They are going to do whatever they want regardless of yours or mines opinion. Who cares anymore? I wanna talk cars!!!

[MR.Shibbs]

How did this thread go from a debate, to paul calling everyone stupid?

[1986GT]

How did this thread go from a debate, to paul calling everyone stupid?

Thats what I was thinking right before I read your post. LOL! Talk about extremist.