combo wont tune

[TONYT]

here's what i've got

351w,.30 stock crank and rods
vic jr intake plumed for efi
75mm holley tb
cartech fuel rails
60lbs hr deka inj.
sct 2600 90mm big air meter
msd efi dist and msd 6al
afr 185 heads
comp hyd roller cam
ati 12 rib set-up for m1sc procharger(intercooled)
1 5/8 bbk shorties
aem air fuel meter(w/5wire sensor)
the problem in a nutshell is the car as setup above runs extremly rich,we spent a few hours(3+) working with an sct chip and an exhaust sniffer ,making change after change and it just would not lean out .i'd say it showed a constant 9-10 richness at idle no matter the tuners input.

now here's the kicker with the blower un hooked,and
24lbs inj
mass air meter from 98 linc
autolite 3926(.52)plugs
the car idles at 13-14 afr and runs and drives very well,has no rich problems as in the first combo

so i know most of you have seen all kinds of combo quirks,so i,m in need of some input to help stop the throw parts at it till you get it right mentallity

[bangingears]

Who is the tuner? with proper data logging your tuner should be able to see whats missing very quickly. The Sct meter are a little different to tune then say a PRO-M thats been scaled for a different sized injector, but should be no problem to tune.

-closed loop disable?
-baro working?
-MAF g/scv
-actual timing vers. software? timing changes can make large a/f changes
-base fuel table changed lamba?
-a/f semsor properly working and calibrated?

[facemelter71]

Who is the tuner? And You probly have a FMU like a vortech or some thing? Maybe its adding the unwanted fuel.
Ive got a prettyclose setup.Just dont have the blower part of it.
331, SCT BA2600 meter,60# deka injectors.And it has the basic SCT burnt chip.

[TONYT]

we wont be using the tuners name here ,dont want this to become a rant thread if u get my drift,but to my understanding banginggears were susposedly done to no avail,and yea facemelter,your combo and mine are similar hence my dismay.
i did a comp check,and a leakdown all came back within tolerances,also this is a fresh motor with just 3-4 hours of run time on it.

[TONYT]

meant to type b'gears that those thing u mentioned were done and had no impact

[redfirepearlgt]

I know this is elementery but sometimes in troubleshooting (as I have done on occasion) the simple things get overlooked.

Is there any chance the belt is slipping on the blower or the blower is pullied higher (less boost) than the boost level for the tune? Just curious if you have a boost gage and are verifiying function of the blower and not just assuming that it is moving air.

Just trying to jog the brainstorming process. Thought it might trigger another's thought process.

Good luck. Sounds like a runner when it tunes in.

[TONYT]

never got it on the dyno as far as making a pull,so the boost level never came into play,it runs soo rich it hardly wants to move,and oh yea there is a boost vac gauge

[redfirepearlgt]

Sounds like its time to set down and compare notes with your tuner and work the problem from his angle. You've done your home work on your end. AS a last thought and then I will shut up and listen, (just trying to learn here as well as jog the thought process) any chance you could put the 24# injectors in with the F/I setup and just start the car without risking anything just to see if the car runs at proper A/F at idle or low RPM? If the car runs 13-14 like N/A at idle this could indicate that the tune was written for a smaller injector OR your 60# injectors are in question. Sure would like to know what you end up finding out.

[TONYT]

the tuner and i swapped from the orig. set of 60 to a new set of deka 60's the same day and the same rich condition persisted,

[Rick93coupe]

It sounds like it's not recalibrating for the 60# injectors and still thinks it has 24's.?

[redfirepearlgt]

It sounds like it's not recalibrating for the 60# injectors and still thinks it has 24's.?

Exactly what I was driving at. Sounds like you have a lot of blood, sweat, and labor in the build, not to mention green stamps. Let us know what you find. See you in the Spring if not before.

[bangingears]

It sounds like it's not recalibrating for the 60# injectors and still thinks it has 24's.?

SCT meters dont come calibrated for different sized injectors, they are like a lightning MAF were you must put the transfer function into the computer

[Rick93coupe]

Yeah I was talking about the ecm. The chip could be bad. Did they send you out saying they didnt know what was wrong?

[TONYT]

yea they thought it might have some bad rings or something,said i should take it home and leak it down ,and do a compressing check,i have a similar post on corral and the guys ova there seem to be thinking along the same lines as u all,its not a hard combo to tune ,must be in the tuners inputs,but this guy has shown to be a very competant tuner,in the past,got me stomped

[Adam@S&MMotorsports]

You are right Tony it must be the tuner:flipoff: Like I told you before it's not in the tune, you have other issue. I wrote tunes with both SCT and Moates chips and neither one would allow me lean the car up. I am very familliar with the SCT meters and 60lb injectors I have probably tuned close to 100 cars with this injector maf combo. Possibly the problem is in the meter. Bring the chip down monday and I'll write you a base tune for a lightning meter and let you use one:bigthumb

[Adam@S&MMotorsports]

Who is the tuner? And You probly have a FMU like a vortech or some thing? Maybe its adding the unwanted fuel.
Ive got a prettyclose setup.Just dont have the blower part of it.
331, SCT BA2600 meter,60# deka injectors.And it has the basic SCT burnt chip.

Ha ha I actually pulled the charge pipe off of the blower and loaded your tune just to prove my point:bigthumb

[TONYT]

let me try and make this POINT CLEAR ,this aint about blaming the tuner its about getting input from othersthat have had similar issues to try and solve my issue,what ever that might be,hence me not naming the tuner or shop,now u done let the cat out the bag,so please posters if u have a comment lets keep it all about the prob solutions and not turn this into a rant post

thanx

[Adam@S&MMotorsports]

I know what you are trying to do but I still have to give you shit? Swing down with the chip on monday and I'll let you use a diff. meter:bigthumb I really don't care if you named me as the tuner, maybe you wouldn't get posts about common shit that I do on a daily basis...

[Whyucryn]

lol...

[orangedemon331]

:popcorn:

[redfirepearlgt]

I know what you are trying to do but I still have to give you shit? Swing down with the chip on monday and I'll let you use a diff. meter:bigthumb I really don't care if you named me as the tuner, maybe you wouldn't get posts about common shit that I do on a daily basis...

Well had I known you were the tuner I would have read and learned and not even wasted my feeble attempt at a suggestion. :tard:

You got one of the best doing your tuning and giving you direction Tony, if 94slowgt :bigthumb doesn't mind me saying. Let us know what the resolve to the problem is. Thanks.

[facemelter71]

If it didn't change when you loaded my tune,its not the tune.Mine runs spot on through-out the RPM range.

Its adding fuel from some where.Just out of curiosity,have you checked the fuel pressure with a different Gage? Ive had some gages go all stupid on me before and didn't read right.

I would say you can try my meter,but I don't want to take it off in risk of clocking it wrong on install.