Lowering Test Scores for Dayton Cops!!

[Kwik92GT]

Click - Dayton Daily News Article - Click (http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/feds-to-dayton-lower-police-recruit-passing-score-1083149.html?cxtype=fb_mlt)

Really?? As if things aren't bad enough in Dayton, now we have to lower test scores to allow lesser police, and firefighter applicants, a chance to get in? Seriously? Fuggin' BS. :mad:

How about, if you really want it bad enough, you study up for it and then just give it your best shot?? WTF happened to EARNING your way instead of having it handed to you? Yeah, thats who I want protecting my family and friends, men and women who had to be given the job because the test was too hard for them to pass. :HYF: These a tough fuckin jobs, the tests SHOULD reflect this fact. :bangwall:

[four6trix]

That's pitiful...

"Fewer than 500 people passed the exam on the city’s recommended score, Danish said. There were two written parts to the exam. Test-takers had to answer 57 of 86 questions right on one and 73 of 102 right on the other to pass."

So, you had to get a 66% on the first part, and a 72% on the second. And the feds suggest that the standard be lowered? Yeah, that's going to help Dayton out. It's simple...hire those who work hard and are qualified. They're not doing citizens any favors by hiring any joe-schmoe off the street just because they showed up for the test.

[Dirtyd0g]

I think only applicants who score 100% should be accepted. If law enforcement is to lead by example it has to start at the very beginning.
Alan

[Rich]

Don't get me started...

[Kwik92GT]

Don't get me started...

I could only imagine brother. :rolleyes:

[03z06vette]

I think only applicants who score 100% should be accepted. If law enforcement is to lead by example it has to start at the very beginning.
Alan
:confused: Most tests are not all yes\no questions. I agree, standards should be raised not lowered!

[Pitbull1052]

doesnt matter anyway it's a good ol boy system......

[RIXXX93GT]

Its pathetic. The change is recommended because the current testing system has not had a high enough success rate for minorities making it impossible for the department to meet the mandated minority quota(resulting in a huge lawsuit from the gov.). So the answer must be that the acceptance levels for testing are set too high....right?....uhhh right? WRONG.

[Rich]

Ok, here is the deal...

I'm completely against lowering the score, it is a total insult to the minorities that have taken and passed the test in the past. Now here is the kicker...it really doesn't make a difference if they lower the passing grade from a 70% to 50% (just a hypothetical number).
Here's why...the City of Dayton Civil Service complies a list of applicants that passed the test. This list is ranked in order based off of test scores. Lets say for example that 200 people passed the test with a score of 70 or better. They would be ranked 1 through 200.

Now, lets say that the passing score is lowered to 50% and that now means that 300 people passed the test. They would now be ranked 1 through 300. The group that scored between 50%-70% would still be ranked in order lower than than the other group. The city is required to run the candidates through in the order they are on the list. It would take a change in the city charter, which would require a public vote.

[Rich]

doesnt matter anyway it's a good ol boy system......

Please explain how it's the good ol boy system...

[Kwik92GT]

I don't care if your blue, black, green, or yellow. If you aren't qualified for the job, you just aren't fucking qualified. We don't need less qualified individuals, regardless of race, making life and death decisions for the public. The whole thing is an insult to anyone who has had to pass the proper entrance exams to get in. :mad: Brilliant result for a bad lawsuit.

[Rich]

I don't care if your blue, black, green, or yellow. If you aren't qualified for the job, you just aren't fucking qualified. We don't need less qualified individuals, regardless of race, making life and death decisions for the public. The whole thing is an insult to anyone who has had to pass the proper entrance exams to get in. :mad: Brilliant result for a bad lawsuit.

You can thank Dean Lovelace...it has his dirty little racist fingerprints all over it!

[Mustard]

http://www.facebook.com/people/Dean-Lovelace/12422981 friend request Mr Lovelace so you can share your thoughts with him on this lol. Personally I thinks a travesty to the whole system that is in place

[2kSVT]

Yeah thanks Dean. Rich and I will have these unqualified goofs watching our backs.

[WHYTRY]

this is prolly why two tool bag cops told me there was no such thing as a private impound an they never hurd of such nonsense. an tryed to put me in jail until there higher power came out screaming at them over it.

[beefcake]

I think only applicants who score 100% should be accepted. If law enforcement is to lead by example it has to start at the very beginning.
Alan

Guess we don't have to worry about you ever being a cop then

[Pitbull1052]

Please explain how it's the good ol boy system...




well I have family who are officers, I have a degree in the field, I scored higher than anyone who took the test when I did, I was the only one to have military and combat experience, I interviewed for the position later to find out they hired a guy who knew an officer on the force. Thus good ol boy system.... I was raised who ever is the best qualified..........

[BigBadStang]

Sadly, it's about the same as the school systems. Most people don't know that many inner city, low performing schools use a different grade scale. What this does is make average grades translate into a higher GPA. My kids school district has one of the highest grading scales in the area. This puts the students at a disadvantage on college applications when their GPA's are being compared to students from other districts. Next year, the district is lowering theirs to be comparable with neighboring Lakota. Why there isn't a statewide standardized grading scale in the PUBLIC school system blows my mind...although it's probably directly related to the teachers not being able to get the pay vs. GPA they want when they work in a crap district.

[denial]

I'm a police officer in Montgomery County and I took this test. I took this test knowing that Dayton needed to hire blacks. The DOJ is a disgrace and it saddens me to see someone get a job based on the color of their skin.

It's not a good situation and I can only hope for the best for Dayton P.D.. I can only hope it works out for some of us "Qualified" police officers. I spoke with the Law Director last week and they said that Laterals are still being considered. They also advised me that if they decide to move forward with laterals, they want a lateral who has several years on the job experience.

They also will look at whether or not you have worked for a small town department or large town/city. It makes a huge difference when hiring someone from tiny town. They have no idea what they are getting in to when they come to Dayton.

[fastone]

Ok, here is the deal...

I'm completely against lowering the score, it is a total insult to the minorities that have taken and passed the test in the past. Now here is the kicker...it really doesn't make a difference if they lower the passing grade from a 70% to 50% (just a hypothetical number).
Here's why...the City of Dayton Civil Service complies a list of applicants that passed the test. This list is ranked in order based off of test scores. Lets say for example that 200 people passed the test with a score of 70 or better. They would be ranked 1 through 200.

Now, lets say that the passing score is lowered to 50% and that now means that 300 people passed the test. They would now be ranked 1 through 300. The group that scored between 50%-70% would still be ranked in order lower than than the other group. The city is required to run the candidates through in the order they are on the list. It would take a change in the city charter, which would require a public vote.

I see where you are coming from, but do they do a thing like Lexington, KY fire. They take every five and only hire one or four out of the five. It's their rule of five system. Don't know if PD does it down there or not. I think the system should be the best people via testing, PT test, mental tesing and interview should be hired.

[fastone]

Trying to remember what FD up the northeast coast had a problem like this. The FD tossed out test scores for promotions because it didn't have enough min. in it. It was mostly white. They gave you the books to study way ahead of testing. The guys got together and started a lawsuit and won.

[blown96cobra]

I was a Police Officer and Police Chief for almost 7years. I took the test for Columbus PD and scored in the low 90s, had prior military service and a degree. Each time I find out that they were only interested in hiring minorites, I was told to try again later. I made a total of 7 attempts before I finally gave up. I guess the fact that they only have a minority recruiting office shouldve painted a clear enough picture.

[Rich]

I see where you are coming from, but do they do a thing like Lexington, KY fire. They take every five and only hire one or four out of the five. It's their rule of five system. Don't know if PD does it down there or not. I think the system should be the best people via testing, PT test, mental tesing and interview should be hired.

Right now it's rule of 1. It would take a vote by the citizens of Dayton to change it. Rumor is the city leaders want rule of 10.

[thecollector]

I was a Police Officer and Police Chief for almost 7years. I took the test for Columbus PD and scored in the low 90s, had prior military service and a degree. Each time I find out that they were only interested in hiring minorites, I was told to try again later. I made a total of 7 attempts before I finally gave up. I guess the fact that they only have a minority recruiting office shouldve painted a clear enough picture.

I had the same thing w/ cincy. Tested @94. Gave up after 3 trys and refocused a private career. Less bs and no nights.

Worse than tax increases or collective bargaining this is the biggest diss-service to citizens. Maybe one day people will wake up.

[juiced]

Sweet so because of race they might take someone who scored way less than someone who scored high, makes me feel safe glad i dont live in dayton

[thecollector]

Sweet so because of race they might take someone who scored way less than someone who scored high, makes me feel safe glad i dont live in dayton

Affirmitive action is practiced in almost all metropolitan areas... a minority is not just decided by race, gender ethnicity sexual preference and military service are minority groups.

[89johnny]

No body takes public safety seriously untill they need it. And then when it takes 20 minutes for the underfunded department to get to theyre house, they wanna start suing people.(when they voted no on public safety levys) its bullshit!

[Rich]

And the hits just keep coming....

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/dayton-throws-out-written-police-exam-scores-will-rely-on-oral-interviews-only-1136418.html

DAYTON — The city of Dayton plans to discard the test scores of the 748 people who passed its police recruit exam in November and will instead hire officers based only on a subjective oral interview — a change meant to improve the city’s ability to hire more minorities.

The announcement comes after the U.S. Department of Justice forced the city to lower its passing score to allow for more minorities into the hiring pool as part of a federal discrimination lawsuit the city settled in 2009.

Those scores are no longer relevant and all candidates are now on equal footing. The oral exam will consist of five situation-based questions asked by an expert panel and last 30 minutes per candidate.

Only those who passed the written exams are allowed to take the oral exam.

The move is arguably the most significant change in the city’s hiring process of police and firefighters in decades. It was made based on a recommendation by Fire & Police Selection Inc., based in Folsom, Calif. FPSI was hired by the city for $150,000 to revamp Dayton’s police and fire exams, said Jim Moore, the city’s interim civil service director.

Moore said in previous years, the oral interview was conducted by the police department and would be factored in with the written exam results.

FPSI was contracted because it had experience with federal discrimination lawsuits, Civil Service officials said.

Dayton Police Union President Randy Beane called the change “outrageous.” He said it circumvents the city’s rule of one hiring practice where candidates must be hired one at a time based on a testing score from best to worst.

“There’s not going to be any objectiveness in the process,” he said. “We are checking with our attorney to see if this is legal.”

City Commissioner Dean Lovelace welcomed the change and said an oral exam can sometimes better reflect a candidate’s worthiness. “If this change increases our ability to hire more minorities, I am for it,” he said. “I have maintained the written test shouldn’t be the only weight in the process.”

<b>Interviews to be completed in June</b>

The city began notifying the 748 who passed the exam by mail this week. Those moving on will have to pass a preliminary background check before participating in the oral interview.

The panel will then score the applicant’s answers and the process will be completed in early June.

Those who pass the oral exam must then pass a polygraph test and psychological and physical exams before being ranked on a hiring list.

Moore disagreed the hiring change was meant to circumvent the city’s hiring rules mandated in its charter. But when asked if this creates more wiggle room to subjectively hire candidates, Moore said, “that might very well be the case. We are reacting to the consent decree which states that we are not to engage in a selection process that has a disparate impact on a certain race,” he said.

The Department of Justice sued Dayton in 2008, claiming its hiring practices for police and fire positions discriminated against minorities, mainly blacks. Dayton has since spent more than $500,000 settling terms of the lawsuit, which included new civil service exams and paying some black applicants who failed the 2006 test that was found to be invalid.

The city last month agreed to lower the passing scores on the two-part written exams to allow 258 additional people into the passing pool after the DOJ rejected the city’s first passing score proposal. Applicants had to correctly answer 58 percent of questions on an 86-question exam and get 63 percent right of 102 questions on the other.

Of the 748 who passed, at least 111 are black, 564 are white and 19 are Hispanic. Some did not declare their race.

The DOJ’s rejection has indefinitely postponed the firefighters exam that was originally scheduled earlier this month and civil service officials said they might not use FPSI to develop the firefighters exam. It is unclear if FPSI’s services will be dropped because of the DOJ’s initial rejection of the test results.

The city’s police and fire ranks continue to shrink toward all-time lows as a result of not being able to replace dozens of retirees and other departures. Of the roughly 650 police and firefighters in the city, less than 40 are black in a city with more than 50,000 black residents.

City Manager Tim Riordan said Wednesday he is hopeful the city can hire police officers in early 2012, but seemed less optimistic about hiring firefighters a few months later.

[9cobra4]

Wow, $500,000 in lawsuits?! Just because these idiots didn't score well enough on the test? Jesus Christ, what poor excuses for people! I guess it pays to be stupid! Instead of studying, and actually working for/earning what they want, they fail the test because they're apparently retarded and then want to sue. This is outrageous, why not just hire the people that did well on the test? Instead of worrying about hurting the feelings of the lazy fucktards who didn't feel like putting forth effort, and want handouts because they're a minority. This is getting completely out of hand.

[Mustard]

lets be honest. The people they want to attract don't speak english well enough to pass an oral interview.

[Pops Fun]

We wonder why our nation is going down the drain!!

[Kwik92GT]

It would almost be funny if it weren't true.

[SATURNV]

<<<------- is happy he lives in Kettering and not the armpit of Montgomery County.

[Rich]

<<<------- is happy he lives in Kettering and not the armpit of Montgomery County.


It's coming your way...DMHA (government housing) is passing out rent vouchers left and right.

[denial]

I have an interview coming up with Dayton myself. Do I expect to move on past that point? Not really. I've read comments thats say Dayton will get nothing but uneducated people. Do you people think the only ones who showed up to take the test were people straight off the street?

I noticed tons of active police officers such as myself who chose to be there and wants to work for Dayton. If Dayton wants to hire people who have never been a police officer before, then fine, train them. If they don't make it through the academy, get rid of em.

I may not be the smartest pen in the drawer, but I'll make damn sure I have your back and will fight till the death if it comes to my brothers. I'm just tired of people thinking a bunch of no good retards showed up to take this test. If you weren't there, then don't judge a book by it's cover.

I don't agree on lowering test scores and I don't agree on throwing them out either. I do know I passed my test and I'm gonna work at getting a job at Dayton!

[Rich]

I do know I passed my test and I'm gonna work at getting a job at Dayton!

Knowing what I know now, if I had to do it over...I would go to a city that actually has an upside. Consider, Warren Conty S.O., West Chester, Mason, etc. This place is a sinking ship and it's going down quickly. I fully expect us to be absorbed into the county with in the next 5-10 years.

[denial]

You mean Dayton as a whole merging or you mean County taking Dayton over completely?

[02mingryGT]

This just in.....

http://nation.foxnews.com/eric-holder/2011/06/10/racial-quota-scandal-obama-justice-department

[CNTLOSE]

You mean Dayton as a whole merging or you mean County taking Dayton over completely?

It has been talked about...especially in the last couple weeks.

Miamisburg will be hiring...they are about 7-8 Officers short. Keep an eye out for when they are taking applications.

[djom1cincy]

(One of the most shocking claims by the DOJ is that it’s not all that important for firefighters to be able to read and write!)

[denial]

Don't believe everything you hear or read in the news. I think we all know that by now.

[zmcnutt]

This is what sucks about trying to find a full time police officer job. I currently work as a part time officer because I cant find anything full time while also working a full time job that has nothing to do with law enforcement. I think its sad they lower test scores, and the minority part is crazy. You give extra points for someone because they are a minority and make it tougher for white males like myself to find a job. I dont care what color or gender the officer is I just want to know that the person most qualified for the job is the one backing me up on a call and protecting the community they are employed by.

[beefcake]

so, dayton gets sued for not hiring, now the people that sued them are getting sued for the pressure?

is that right? lol

[may93]

I work in Corrections as a Captain and it's the same bullshit. I had to have a College degree and military experience to get my job. Others were given their postions based off the fact their a minority. It's not just law Enforcement but any type of job that one works at. Myself I think race and gender should be deleted from the job application.

[02mingryGT]

so, dayton gets sued for not hiring, now the people that sued them are getting sued for the pressure?

is that right? lol

"This “racial quota” scheme, while clearly shameless in its intent, also seems to violate laws against discrimination and Supreme Court precedent."

Dayton was never sued, just threatened and bullied into accepting "unqualified" applicants based on race. The DOJ is being sued for not releasing documents pertaining to the acceptance of the unqualified candidates. It is blatant reverse discrimination.

[mustang8998]

It is blatant reverse discrimination.

Wrong, it is discrimination, PERIOD!

To say reverse discrimination, is to imply only one race can discriminate.

[05yellowgt]

(One of the most shocking claims by the DOJ is that it’s not all that important for firefighters to be able to read and write!)
Just need to be able to handle a big hose is all you need to be a firefighter right?:lol: I mean it isn't like you have to file reports, or other paperwork right? What an F'n Joke. I'm stuck in Dayton for the next several years because I bought a house in the city limits. I'm sure not going to sell and lose money. We're just hoping it hits bottom and starts to get better, but who am I kidding right?

[02mingryGT]

Wrong, it is discrimination, PERIOD!

To say reverse discrimination, is to imply only one race can discriminate.

Semantics though i agree with your philosophy.