302 Block Questions

[Chunk94GT]

Im looking to start messing with my car again, and wanting to build a motor for it. Just curious on the difference in the block of a older 302 vs a sn95 302. I know the accesories were different and the timing chain covers were different and different water pumps. But if I have all the parts off a 94 block will they bolt up to a pre 94 block, or would I have to convert everything over to a pre 94 accesories brackets. I would assume if the pre 94 timing chain cover and water pump are different, then the 94 belt assembly wouldn't work. I'm just curious if I find a older block if I need to also get older acc brackets for the different locations, or if they were compatable, with the same bolt patterns just different styles.

Thanks

Josh

[adragon72]

Every thing off my 84 302 bolted on my 95 but the older blocks are more than likely non roller.

[Goober]

Everything will bolt up. If you're wanting to use the 94/95 front drive, then use the timing cover made for it. You'll lose the bolt holes for the spider spring in the lifter valley, so either link bar lifters or drilling/tapping will be in order (Just a good excuse to go with a tight lash solid roller cam).

[Chunk94GT]

Thanks for the input, but after some research I don't have the money to put into a new motor build. So I decided to go another route. Just curious if anyone knows what kind of final numbers I would be looking at with this setup.

Stock Heads
1.7 roller rockers
B-Cam
LT's, O/R X pipe
Cobra Intake
75mm TB
C&L 76mm Mass Air

I will also have other stuff done, Like Msd 6AL, Pro Billet Dist, Complete Emissions Delete, and A/C, but that will be the major stuff. My goal is to have a solid Mid to Low 13's avg. Not looking for much more than that right now. Its been awhile since working on the car and forgot how much this stuff cost:lol:. The car already has:

3.73's
Spec 3 Clutch
Short Throw
FMS Alum D/S
CAI
U/D Pulleys
O/R H Flowmaster 40's Dumped

Other odd and end stuff. The last time I ran it I could avg 14.1x and the fastest I ever ran was 14.01 that was full body, interior, spare tire, stock suspension, and street tires. I'm also going to do complete rear suspension on it and hopefully the front, but no money tree in the back yard either. So any input on this would be great, mainly looking for if it will work, what kind of numbers, if there is something I'm missing, or any advise on other things that would work better.

Thanks
-Josh

[akagreg3]

get a good tune on it josh, it be a 350hp/400 depending on the mileage, your compression goes down the more miles it has, rings and bearings are a cheap rebuild , i have read where ppl have done it with the engine still in the car.

[Chunk94GT]

get a good tune on it josh, it be a 350hp/400 depending on the mileage, your compression goes down the more miles it has, rings and bearings are a cheap rebuild , i have read where ppl have done it with the engine still in the car.

The car shows 107,xxx. But it has had 3.73's in it most of its life. I bought it with 50,xxx on it and it had them in it. So I would say it has in the 90's but I'm sure with the gears the motor is showing around 100k up wear. I may run a compression test on it and see were its sitting.

[Pitbull1052]

get a good tune on it josh, it be a 350hp/400 depending on the mileage, your compression goes down the more miles it has, rings and bearings are a cheap rebuild , i have read where ppl have done it with the engine still in the car.




350/400 sounds a little much to me especially on stock heads I have a built 9.5:1 compression 347 that doesnt put 400 down.......

[akagreg3]

it probably is gonna be more like 300, good tune after the works done where alot of the hp is

[Pitbull1052]

yea you're right a stock 302 with stock heads rr, a cam, dizzy, msd box, and an intake should get him to 300....... I should have had you build my motor

[akagreg3]

:lol: well thank ya,
& thank god for my ford manual:tongue2:

[Pitbull1052]

:lol: well thank ya,
& thank god for my ford manual:tongue2:





You know i wasnt being serious right???? I'm sure some of the engine builders and or tuners on here have seen some good numbers out of a stock block with minimal mods but i'm pretty sure it'll be difficult to get to 300+ without some heads even if it's GT40P's or a power adder.

[akagreg3]

serious or not if you cant get 300 hp out of a 107k motor stop working on cars and go sit back behind your computer

[Pitbull1052]

serious or not if you cant get 300 hp out of a 107k motor stop working on cars and go sit back behind your computer



Put your wrenchs where your mouth is....... you build it i'll pay for the dyno time if it's 300 or over i'll pay for the dyno and your build if not then you pay. stock bottom end stock pistons, stock heads you're allowed the same mods the OP chose

[akagreg3]

really im not a tunner and and never worried about hp as long as it ran good and dosent cut out when you hammer the gas -iv always did my own tinkering with my engines the way my dad taught me, its never failed me yet, been building cars since i was 13 years old im now 35, 3rd mustang iv owned alway had chevy camaros/montes/trucks before

[Pitbull1052]

really im not a tunner and and never worried about hp as long as it ran good and dosent cut out when you hammer the gas -iv always did my own tinkering with my engines the way my dad taught me, its never failed me yet, been building cars since i was 13 years old im now 35, 3rd mustang iv owned alway had chevy camaros/montes/trucks before






So really what you're saying is you have no clue what HP he'll put down or what it takes to get a 302 to 3-400 HP...... so to give you some of your own medicine......... if you don't know what it takes to build a 3-400 HP motor how about you just sit behind your Ford manual.........

[akagreg3]

nop i said he well get 300 horse power out of the setup no problem..
didnt i just read on here where the engine in your car was the first motor you built? wow your expert

its pissing in the wind here now, i know josh sold him the fuel line for his car, listing to tomany ppl on the internet is bad for your pocket book, most time its there friend and of course there gonna say yea they do the best work,,

anyway josh youll get great power out of that setup good luck with the build

[jktruckin06]

Haha... now you are back pedaling and saying 300, before it was 350hp/400... I have no beef with ya, but that is funny right there.

[jktruckin06]

Chunk you will have a rockin car no doubt. I wouldn't see the times you want being a problem.

Someone just told me a stock 5.0 5 speed will dyno 165-180... that shocked me

[Pitbull1052]

nop i said he well get 300 horse power out of the setup no problem..
didnt i just read on here where the engine in your car was the first motor you built? wow your expert

its pissing in the wind here now, i know josh sold him the fuel line for his car, listing to tomany ppl on the internet is bad for your pocket book, most time its there friend and of course there gonna say yea they do the best work,,

anyway josh youll get great power out of that setup good luck with the build




You're right it was my first FORD build and again I laid it all out there for you to prove yourself and I never said I was an expert but you did but I guess your daddy showing you how to work on dem der chebbies in your gerage in hamiltucky......... since i know you've got atleast a 300 hp beast we can take it to the track or the street anytime you like.........

[chris91]

I like this guys math though Brad. Lol With his logic your car should be at 600hp. And shit that must mean mine is gonna put down an easy 400 since I have heads. :)

[mustangjon]

Chunk you will have a rockin car no doubt. I wouldn't see the times you want being a problem.

Someone just told me a stock 5.0 5 speed will dyno 165-180... that shocked me

Lincoln dynod @ 195 all stock but underdrives and electric fan and accel box through aod so anything is possoble but 400 out of stock motor isnt likely

[jktruckin06]

Yeah I'd be curious to see it in person. The story I heard was 168 and it happened at uti.

[akagreg3]

ya know the guy asked a question no one even answered in till i said something and it wasn't shit about his question it was all to bash me lol
it don't realty matter what your car runs or what you have built or haven't built to me, build em break em have fun gentlemen life to short

[Chunk94GT]

Jk you are correct. A STOCK with no mods 5.0 5spd put 215 to the flywheel. Would possibly put 180-185 to the tires.

I'm sure heads would make a huge difference in the setup but 1500 dollar heads is out of the question right now. I just want a solid fun car. Take it on long cruises, to the the track, and just have fun.

On another hand if anyones knows different cam options. I have heard different things about running E or F cam with stock heads and pistons. I've heard that with a E or F cam you can run 1.7 RR and I have also heard you can't. Also told I can get more performance out of a TFS Stage 1 cam.

[Chunk94GT]

Lincoln dynod @ 195 all stock but underdrives and electric fan and accel box through aod so anything is possoble but 400 out of stock motor isnt likely

400 out of stock block n heads is possible. Heard of guys with blowers, an all stock motor except a Tune, TB, Mass and injector putting around 350 to the ground, so 400 with a good cam, intake, big clutch, and rear, shouldn't have trouble with 400 to the wheels on stock heads and block. That is my opinion and I'm sure there are guys on there that would know for sure, but I'm sure it is possible no problem.

[2Kblacksleeper]

I have no dog in this but I've had a 306 with a trick flow stage 3, ported 69 Windsor heads vic Jr single plane, electric water pump and fans. Only belt was a alt. Through 4.30 gears 28-10.5-15 quick time pros a c-4 with a 4200 stall and it made 305 at the wheels on md's old dyno.

In a light coupe it would run mid to low 12s.
On the other hand I bought a used stock block 347 that Bes built. 700 plus solid roller, dart pro 1 cast iron heads vic Jr intake and it made 545 on an engine dyno. It was on the ragged edge in my opinion.

I'm just saying builds can be all over but most likely you'll be in the high 2 to low 300 rwhp range with that combo.

Then again its just a guess. You won't know till your done, but a great tune can do wonders.

[2Kblacksleeper]

Damn double post.,

[2Kblacksleeper]

The 347 was a 13.0 to 1 comp. I got it from Atbracin. In his old coupe it did a 10.31 at 131 with a jerico.

[jktruckin06]

I am running an f cam with the cobra 1.7 rollers. My pistons have some relief though

[Pitbull1052]

I like this guys math though Brad. Lol With his logic your car should be at 600hp. And shit that must mean mine is gonna put down an easy 400 since I have heads. :)




I know right all i was trying to do is tell this ass hat that he was giving his bud poor information. If he was a true friend to his bud he'd tell him to go get himself a gt40 exploder motor for about 600 bucks throw and F cam in it and have a blast..... ask Bob how much fun that lil combo is.... then when he did get some bucks he could slap a turbo on it go see Mr Adam and have him tune it to about 500... but then again i'm no expert........

[akagreg3]

lol throw more parts at and when that dont work couse ya really dont know shit, all that stuff will be on SBZ for almost the same price said ass hat paid for it.......

say what you want bash me idc if i would said yea dude youll get 5000hp out of that setup site notizies got stick there nose in everytime.. on every forum site

FYI josh is just someone that conntacted me for parts to get his car run?

[akagreg3]

gt40 and all that is fine and dandy 600$ blocks?
save the money go get your rings and bearings done a good 5 angel value job new timming chain, put a nice street cam in, get it tuned it will run great and be fun, listing to many ppl on the net gonna hurt the wallet, there selling there old stuff that didnt work or they broke, (or its someone buddy)

[Pitbull1052]

lol throw more parts at and when that dont work couse ya really dont know shit, all that stuff will be on SBZ for almost the same price said ass hat paid for it.......

say what you want bash me idc if i would said yea dude youll get 5000hp out of that setup site notizies got stick there nose in everytime.. on every forum site

FYI josh is just someone that conntacted me for parts to get his car run?





I wasnt even talking to you I called you out to the track you declined that says it all right there. I'd say a GT40 motor and turbo is a pretty proven combo that several guys on here have done and Adam has tuned one to over 500 hp i've seen the dyno charts. If you'd like to continue this in the whipping room just say the word.....



If Josh would like some help i'd be more than happy to lend a hand just say the word......

[2Kblacksleeper]

Pitbulls, right on the GT40 motor being the best and least expensive option.

Hell plated had one with a turbo doing 10's like ten years ago. It's a proven combo that's been around a long time.

[Pitbull1052]

Pitbulls, right on the GT40 motor being the best and least expensive option.

Hell plated had one with a turbo doing 10's like ten years ago. It's a proven combo that's been around a long time.






Thank you sir! The only reason I suggested that set up is there's about 10k in my set up, i just had to have a 347..... if i had it to do all over again or if i ever buy another car that's the set up i'll put in mine. It's cheap it's proven and if it breaks who cares just grab another gt40 and rock on.....

[A98StAnGlVr1996]

I have a 94 mustang w/ a stock 302 ,it was freshened up 30k miles ago ,and almost identical bolt on's , and it made 277 h.p n/a ,and 361 h.p on 100 shot w/ 427 tq.