Final Running of the Dozen

[Rick93coupe]

You guys need to quit making this shit so difficult. Why not just run a dirty dozen true street event at the end of the year? You set a date and have everyone show up and unload if needed. Go on a street cruise and prove your road worthiness and come back and run em. If you can't make it to the running of the dozen you just don't make it on the list. I mean how simple is that? Obviously If you didn't make it to the NMRA race in BG you couldn't place there, so what's the difference? If you do it this way, everyone is working / tuning / testing, their cars throughout the yr and at the end the baddest boys get the props.
As far as showing up to events. Is it realistic that someone should have to take a vacation day from work to show up? I worked most every Sat and Sun this summer and barely had time to take a dump. I didn't make it to any get togethers, but I consider myself to be a participating member of the site. Should that kill my eligibility?

[fasthawk]

Here's my take, the dd has been the most accurate in the last 2 years due to the faster guys not posting there times BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT STREET CARS.Yes they can be driven on the street for a 30 mile cruise but they are not legit street cars .

[Maximus]

You guys need to quit making this shit so difficult. Why not just run a dirty dozen true street event at the end of the year? You set a date and have everyone show up and unload if needed. Go on a street cruise and prove your road worthiness and come back and run em. If you can't make it to the running of the dozen you just don't make it on the list. I mean how simple is that? Obviously If you didn't make it to the NMRA race in BG you couldn't place there, so what's the difference? If you do it this way, everyone is working / tuning / testing, their cars throughout the yr and at the end the baddest boys get the props.
As far as showing up to events. Is it realistic that someone should have to take a vacation day from work to show up? I worked most every Sat and Sun this summer and barely had time to take a dump. I didn't make it to any get togethers, but I consider myself to be a participating member of the site. Should that kill my eligibility?

Ok, so how are you going to make the "Race" on a Sat or Sun when you have to work? Just ONE of the problems we run into.

[Maximus]

Here's my take, the dd has been the most accurate in the last 2 years due to the faster guys not posting there times BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT STREET CARS.Yes they can be driven on the street for a 30 mile cruise but they are not legit street cars .

The What a street car is and what isnt a streetcar debate is old.

[Rick93coupe]

Here's my take, the dd has been the most accurate in the last 2 years due to the faster guys not posting there times BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT STREET CARS.Yes they can be driven on the street for a 30 mile cruise but they are not legit street cars .

Street car means something different to each individual. In my opinion the biggest thing the street cruise proves is that your car won't over heat driving on the road. 30 miles in stop and go traffic more than proves that. I don't know about you, but 10 min at idle and my daily driver gets up to temp, its the fact the cooling system is working that keeps it from over heating just sitting there.

[Rick93coupe]

Ok, so how are you going to make the "Race" on a Sat or Sun when you have to work? Just ONE of the problems we run into.

In most situations I need notice. For instance we were informed today that Nov 1st we need to schedule our vacation days for 2012. True story.

Edit: I forgot to add that If I don't get enough notice, I would have to go back to my first point. "If you can't make it to the running of the dozen you just don't make it on the list."

[Kwik92GT]

The age old question of what a street car is will never be answered. It's different to each individual. I like the extreme side of things. If it has legit tags and insurance, it's all good to me. I know most people don't follow that logic and I'm OK with that. I know the rules for the DD are based on what Vinny wanted, but, I feel from what I knew of him, that Vinny would have given a certain amount of leeway to members, if he felt they deserved it. If you look at his quotes, he says things like, we "may" do this or that, etc. It was a fluid thing, it wasn't all in concrete. He understood that everything isn't just written in stone and that is that. He was searching for an answer to this whole thing himself. Look at the car he was building, it wouldn't fit what most of you would consider a street car.

The fact is, the DD is a shell of it's former self. The fast guys simply don't post their times to avoid the drama. This site was heading in the right direction in late winter-early spring, but something happened, and it splintered a lot of good that was going on. I don't think this site or the DD will ever be what it once was. It just won't. Does that mean I hate this site? Fuck no. For those of you saying if you don't like the rules, leave or GTFO. I don't have to agree with everything, or even everyone, to be a member here and enjoy most of what this site offers. You don't have to click on the thread if you don't want to read the complaints or whatever else is going on. Telling people to get lost definitely ISN'T the answer to all this.

I think a lot has been done to help people qualify for the DD, the SCS events that Craig has put on, adding the BG and Columbus NMRA events etc., and that's a good thing. I know where most all the rules come from, the one rule I don't understand or get where it came from is, where if you have to fix your car or if you change your combo for whatever reason, you're off the list? What's the benefit or purpose of this rule? If you ran the time, and it was witnessed and you qualify, why should changing anything void that? I understand if you no longer own the car you'd have to be off the list, but fixing your car or changing combos is grounds for being off the list? I don't get it.

[05yellowgt]

The broke then off the list rule helps to weed out someone who takes a stock car, throws a 300 shot on it to make one run down the track and run a good time, but melts down the motor in the process.

I remember a few years ago that became a big deal but I think most have just come to accept that by now.

[Kwik92GT]

The broke then off the list rule helps to weed out someone who takes a stock car, throws a 300 shot on it to make one run down the track and run a good time, but melts down the motor in the process.

I remember a few years ago that became a big deal but I think most have just come to accept that by now.

Fair enough. I honestly don't have a problem with someone doing that though. I say "game on." The problem with a rule like that is if you have a member who beats on their stuff all season long, been on the DD the whole season, steps it up to try and get a better spot and blows up. They are then off the list completely. Seems counter productive to the original intent of the list.

[cstreu1026]

Ok, so how are you going to make the "Race" on a Sat or Sun when you have to work? Just ONE of the problems we run into.

I would think if you decide in the spring when and where the race is to take place then I don't see any reason why all the people who bitch and moan about the rules can't plan to make the race if the sticker is so f'n important. You don't see NMRA or NMCA events scheduled around someone's work schedule. Either you can make it or you can't and if you can't then better luck next year.

[Rick93coupe]

My point exactly.

[facemelter71]

I dont care if Im number 1 or number 12. I built every square inch of my drivetrain and suspension with my own two hands. I just want a sticker and my winnings check after all this if over.lol.

[fasthawk]

Street car means something different to each individual. In my opinion the biggest thing the street cruise proves is that your car won't over heat driving on the road. 30 miles in stop and go traffic more than proves that. I don't know about you, but 10 min at idle and my daily driver gets up to temp, its the fact the cooling system is working that keeps it from over heating just sitting there.

I guess my idea of a street cars consist of more than a 5 gallon fuel cell , your nos bottle holder is not in the pass seat, you actullay own a set of street tires and dont bitch because you have to drive it on race fuel plus you have current tags and ins. We all now whos are street cars and whos are not.

[beefcake]

I dont care if Im number 1 or number 12. I built every square inch of my drivetrain and suspension with my own two hands. I just want a sticker and my winnings check after all this if over.lol.

LOL

The broke then off the list rule helps to weed out someone who takes a stock car, throws a 300 shot on it to make one run down the track and run a good time, but melts down the motor in the process.

I remember a few years ago that became a big deal but I think most have just come to accept that by now.

Yep

The What a street car is and what isnt a streetcar debate is old.

Very true

The age old question of what a street car is will never be answered. It's different to each individual. I like the extreme side of things. If it has legit tags and insurance, it's all good to me. I know most people don't follow that logic and I'm OK with that. I know the rules for the DD are based on what Vinny wanted, but, I feel from what I knew of him, that Vinny would have given a certain amount of leeway to members, if he felt they deserved it. If you look at his quotes, he says things like, we "may" do this or that, etc. It was a fluid thing, it wasn't all in concrete. He understood that everything isn't just written in stone and that is that. He was searching for an answer to this whole thing himself. Look at the car he was building, it wouldn't fit what most of you would consider a street car.

I am one of those that usually lump a street car into the category of "something i would drive everyday". That doesn't make it right or wrong. Just my opinion.

I think the car should have a/c, this and that and all the creature comforts. But, like some have said. Some cars didn't come with a/c. And that is true.

Cars have come a long way the last 10 years even from where they were. and 20 years, even more so. It's all very subjective.

As far as Vinny's thoughts, you are correct. Take Jeff for example. Jeff is one of the oldest members of the board like me. There is no doubt he deserves to be at the top of the list. The only reason he currently isn't there is simply because the car hasn't been on the street at all. So, to be fair to guys that haven't made any sbz events or anything, that is why he is not up top.

If Vinny was here, he definately would want Jeff on the list as do I. Against popular belief, I know / don't think my car is the fastest car around. I had no expectation of that. It's a 4000lb brick. I think Jeff deserves it as of now, and i'm hoping some of the other cars get back on again as well before the end of the year. I have a 9 sec daily driver, and that is enough for me. I welcome the faster cars on the list.

The fact is, the DD is a shell of it's former self. The fast guys simply don't post their times to avoid the drama. This site was heading in the right direction in late winter-early spring, but something happened, and it splintered a lot of good that was going on. I don't think this site or the DD will ever be what it once was. It just won't. Does that mean I hate this site? Fuck no. For those of you saying if you don't like the rules, leave or GTFO. I don't have to agree with everything, or even everyone, to be a member here and enjoy most of what this site offers. You don't have to click on the thread if you don't want to read the complaints or whatever else is going on. Telling people to get lost definitely ISN'T the answer to all this.

I don't think thats entirely true. The "end of year" dozen issues have been going on since the beginning. Go back and look at posts at the end of every year, and you will see the same thing.

It is always, always, for the exact same reason. People that have not done what needed to be done to be on the list, post a time. The time doesn't get added. Then they bitch, and their friends or just people that like to stir the pot jump on board, and all hell breaks loose.

It's the same as it's always been. I don't see it changing. It goes hand and hand with the dozen. About the only way to avoid the drama is if a non legit time is posted, delete it and all posts related to it.

I think a lot has been done to help people qualify for the DD, the SCS events that Craig has put on, adding the BG and Columbus NMRA events etc., and that's a good thing. I know where most all the rules come from, the one rule I don't understand or get where it came from is, where if you have to fix your car or if you change your combo for whatever reason, you're off the list? What's the benefit or purpose of this rule? If you ran the time, and it was witnessed and you qualify, why should changing anything void that? I understand if you no longer own the car you'd have to be off the list, but fixing your car or changing combos is grounds for being off the list? I don't get it.

You are correct. Craig starting his shootouts was definately a positive thing. (just double the cruise, lol)

Adding the old school NMRA events was great too.

I can honestly say, i've had some great times with Bangerz. The year we all did the Georgia NMRA, many trips to Bowling Green with Epic camping. Cabrew trips.

As far as broke. It's kind of like John already said.

I'm a little mixed on the changing combo / regular maintenance. I think we've talked about some of that stuff this year as well. I had issues twice with kicking blower belts and knocking oil lines off. But, we fixed them at the track, and the car drove back, and came back the next week.

Like it's been said. If you can't drive the car under it's own power. It's broke.

I get stressed like everyone over this stuff. Like Craig said, I knew what I was in for, and i'm used to it with updating the list. It is what it is. I think for the most part, 99% of the people know the real deal. It's just the trouble makers that like to stir the crap. As many members as we have, you can see each year, it gets isolated to 3-5 people really stirring the pot.

Today, i'm in a much better mood about it.

[Maximus]

Fair enough. I honestly don't have a problem with someone doing that though. I say "game on." The problem with a rule like that is if you have a member who beats on their stuff all season long, been on the DD the whole season, steps it up to try and get a better spot and blows up. They are then off the list completely. Seems counter productive to the original intent of the list.

I TRIED to get the Dozen to end earlier in the year so that guys could have the remaining couple weeks to HAMMER DOWN without the fear of losing their spot.

I would think if you decide in the spring when and where the race is to take place then I don't see any reason why all the people who bitch and moan about the rules can't plan to make the race if the sticker is so f'n important. You don't see NMRA or NMCA events scheduled around someone's work schedule. Either you can make it or you can't and if you can't then better luck next year.

That makes for good reading, but their is ALWAYS someone complaining. (Its usually the same guys BTW) I guess the new guy updating the list next year will just have to be direct and to the point with the guidelines and realize that you cannot please everyone.

I should have a Mustang out next year, so I should have some spark back to get out and about as well...Running of the Pony's, SCS, Quaker Steak & Lube on Tuesdays, etc etc

[AntiRice427]

I'm not going to read all 7 pages of this bs, but I will be there tomorrow night. Hope to see some of you there and have some fun. That is the purpose of this right??

[beefcake]

I TRIED to get the Dozen to end earlier in the year so that guys could have the remaining couple weeks to HAMMER DOWN without the fear of losing their spot.

Maybe we should look at that again for next year



That makes for good reading, but their is ALWAYS someone complaining. (Its usually the same guys BTW) I guess the new guy updating the list next year will just have to be direct and to the point with the guidelines and realize that you cannot please everyone.

I should have a Mustang out next year, so I should have some spark back to get out and about as well...Running of the Pony's, SCS, Quaker Steak & Lube on Tuesdays, etc etc

Get that shit out, been too long!

[facemelter71]

I TRIED to get the Dozen to end earlier in the year so that guys could have the remaining couple weeks to HAMMER DOWN without the fear of losing their spot.



That makes for good reading, but their is ALWAYS someone complaining. (Its usually the same guys BTW) I guess the new guy updating the list next year will just have to be direct and to the point with the guidelines and realize that you cannot please everyone.

I should have a Mustang out next year, so I should have some spark back to get out and about as well...Running of the Pony's, SCS, Quaker Steak & Lube on Tuesdays, etc etc

Craig,Keep it simple and get one done. Its about time for you to get back into a mustang.

[fasthawk]

So now after the 8.5 race tomorrow night at least 5 people will be off the list that really belong on the list because all these guys are members here and did not post there times up.Most people said by the way i read it, they are street cars.

[beefcake]

So now after the 8.5 race tomorrow night at least 5 people will be off the list that really belong on the list because all these guys are members here and did not post there times up.Most people said by the way i read it, they are street cars.

the 8.5 guys run 1/8 mile and i'm not sure how many if any have been to the cruises / shootouts etc..

if not, then they would have to drive the car to the track tomorrow, and run 1/4 mile, if they drive to the track, imo they rate being on the list